Community Forums

bluepill · 11-15-2011, 09:04 PM

Remembering some classic Diesel engine problems (Oldsmobile, anyone?), I'm glad to have one of the most proven designs available - Cummins ISB.

Just sayin'

Bob (WA0MQE) · 11-16-2011, 04:27 AM

Every manufacturer at one time or the other, doesn't matter if it's engines, vehicles, refrigerator's... etc. etc. etc., has had problems with some model of something they built. If you go back far enough I'll bet you'll find a problem engine Cummins built. As a matter of fact the Cummins 400 ISL in a group of engines built in 2005/06 had an issue where the king pins fitted to the pistons were failing. There is/was a recall about it. So just because Navistar had an issue back in 2006 or 2007 with an engine they built for Ford doesn't mean zip regarding their quality of engines. They've been building engines for a long long time gas and diesel and they've been shown to be very reliable.

vito.a · 11-16-2011, 06:32 AM

VestaDave, I did not intend any disrespect for you or your new MaxForce powered motorhome, I was only commenting based on my experience with Navistar. I grew up with International Harvester products and have a deep respect for them. Our old International Farmall tractor is still going some 60 years later. The International Scout and Travelall were also great vehicles. The International DT444 diesel engine was a good motor and led into the International manufactured Ford Powerstroke 6.9 and 7.3 V8 diesel engines built from 1983 until 2002. These were great motors and many are still going today. In 2003 the new corporation, Navistar, introduced the new 6.0 diesel in Ford trucks. This was an early EGR design with only 4 head bolts per cylinder vs the previous design of 6 per cylinder. This led to major head gasket problems and burning/warping of the heads and block. The 6.0 Powerstroke engine also had major manufacturing defects that led to oil leaks and turbo issues. Additionally, the cab had to be removed for any major engine service thus taking the truck down for extended periods. Many of us owned these $50k plus trucks and made payments on them for 1-3 years, yet only had them to drive for a few weeks! Ford bought back hundreds of these trucks. The 6.0 was in production until it was replaced with the 6.4 in 2008. The 6.4 has been better, but there are still issues, so Ford has taken over engine production from Navistar.
Hope this helps everyone understand why some of us get excited about Navistar engines.

VestaDave · 11-16-2011, 12:24 PM

Apologies accepted. I think I understand the angst. It's clear that Monaco needs to work on squaring the circle with owners that purchased their rigs before they went under. Until and unless they do; they risk going down again. So, Diplomat Don and Vito I get it. Obviously I have a vested interest in their doing just that. Let's hope.

deSanford · 11-16-2011, 11:47 PM

FWIW I heard today from a reliable "source" that Navistar is having troubles with their new Maxforce 7 and 10 diesel engines. The 7 is reported to "load" up the converter and the 10 is being reported that diesel fuel is getting into the oil in the pan. Reminds me of the joke about the guy that reports his fuel mileage is so good he has to stop and drain out some diesel fuel. Maybe now he would have to stop and drain out some lubricating oil. I have not verified this with Navistar, maybe someone from Navistar can report on this information that I received from whom I believe to be a reliable "source".

MONGO MAN · 11-17-2011, 08:01 AM

Investors have punished Navistar as their stock is down almost 40% since July amid reports of their Diesel engine problems.Cummins however has been up 10%.
Ford's new 2011 Powerstroke Diesel (designed & built by Ford from scratch) could have gone either SCR or EGR but Ford chose the SCR-UREA system for better MPG & power.

deSanford · 11-17-2011, 12:26 PM

You are right MONGO MAN my wifes BMW 335D gets an HONEST 75.5 MPG driving from Signal Hill, Ca to Las Vegas going 80-85 MPH. Her BMW Diesel uses SCR technology. My old Mercedes 2005 diesel 320D only gets 40MPH with NO EGR or SCR. Still that's not too bad for a luxury car. My car only has one turbo and the wife's BMW I-6 has two turbos.

moisheh · 11-17-2011, 06:28 PM

WAOMEQ: No wonder Cummins had problems with those engines. Thery were using king pins instead of WRIST pins!!

VestaDave · 06-16-2012, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moisheh

WAOMEQ: No wonder Cummins had problems with those engines. Thery were using king pins instead of WRIST pins!!

Hey, I've been following the recent news about Navistar and the EPA and I really am having difficulty in figuring out which engine or engines they have not had certified@2010 standards. Does anyone out there know the scoop on this? I think it's the MF13, is that correct? Has the MF15 been certified?

moisheh · 06-16-2012, 11:45 AM

I too cannot decipher those news stories. But it really does not amtter. navistar has put themselves in to a corner with that technology. Their Class 8 truck sales are dropping. I doubt any fleets are going to order any of those trucks because of the Engine. I am not sure but I also think they do not offe rany other amke of engines in their trucks. Big mistake. Maybe Driver can get us current info??

Traps90 · 06-16-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VestaDave

Hey, I've been following the recent news about Navistar and the EPA and I really am having difficulty in figuring out which engine or engines they have not had certified@2010 standards. Does anyone out there know the scoop on this? I think it's the MF13, is that correct? Has the MF15 been certified?

I think there still waiting on certification on the Maxxforce 15, I believe the MF13 has been certified as they have been selling it for quite awhile.

Does seem like there are some issues with the MF 13

DriVer · 06-16-2012, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traps90

Does seem like there are some issues with the MF 13

I spoke with a MCP rep and what I was told is that MaxxForce 13 has been certified for .2% NOX under the 2010 specifications using AEGR. I believe that Monaco has exhausted its ISX inventory. The upper end of the Monaco line of motorhomes like the Dynasty & Diplomat are scheduled to get the MaxxForce 13.

moisheh · 06-16-2012, 03:44 PM

No No NO. The 13 is the problem engine. I think the smaller engines are OK. I dont think the 15 is ready yet but am not sure.

DriVer · 06-16-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moisheh

The rest of the world does not use the EGR method. Only Navistar. Time will tell who wins.

"Everyone" including the rest of the world uses EGR. Navistar uses a strategy called Advanced EGR and I have to give them credit for spending the money to try and achieve 2010 emissions in cylinder.

Everyone else takes a 2007 engine and sticks a DPF, doser and SCR in the exhaust system and it works but I believe that given the choice, I would not rather be saddled with being an active participant in my emission control system. That task has always been up to the engine manufacturer.

What if we all had to add special fluid in our cars on top of gasoline? I can see the outcry and screams of disdain now!