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Old 07-03-2015, 08:25 PM   #1
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No power to water heater switches

We just purchased a 2004 Monaco Windsor PDQ. It has a Suburban SW10DE water heater. Initially the light would come on for the gas switch, but not the 120v ac switch. When testing I think I inadvertently grounded one of the hots to ground. Now I have no power to either of the switches or to the water heater itself. I assumed that a fuse blew but I cannot locate it. The fuse and breaker marked "water heater" in the main panel at the rear of the coach are both functioning properly.
I pulled the cover off the heater and was able to access the back of it through the basement but have been unable to find an inline fuse, or relay.
I have been looking on and off for three days so would greatly appreciate it if someone could tell me where it is that the switches are fed from.
Thanks!
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Old 07-03-2015, 09:39 PM   #2
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I can't remember if there is a 12 volt fuse in the fuse panel, mine is located in the bedroom next to the main 120 volt panel.

On my coach the water heater requires 12 volt for both the propane and 120 volt element. I have an EMS system that limits 120 volt usage if hooked to less then a 50 amp supply. In addition there is a 12 volt relay that engages the 120 volt circuit. When you press the switch for the element to come on it actually closes a relay that engages the 120 volt circuit which is wired in after the EMS system. If there is no 12 volt it won't work. This relay is located behind the EMS panel, hard to get to.

Here is a wiring schematic for my 2002 coach, do not know if it is the same as yours. If not contact Monaco tech service and they can provide.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 02_Windsor_120_V Wiring Diagram.pdf (97.3 KB, 95 views)
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Old 07-04-2015, 01:13 AM   #3
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Thanks for the response. The previous owner gave me a rather large book of schematics but it did not include the distribution panel. Thank you for that. Tomorrow I will work a little harder in that area to try to locate the relay. Perhaps it is behind the fuse panel as indicated in the notes.
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Old 07-04-2015, 08:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhanks View Post
The fuse and breaker marked "water heater" in the main panel at the rear of the coach are both functioning properly.
How did you determine the fuse is good? If by just looking at it, I've been burned too many times by fuses that look good, but don't pass current. Always use a meter or test light to check fuses.

Does your fuse panel look like this?



If so, look closely, and you can see the large blocky traces that connect the fuses to the connectors. There is a one-to-one correspondence between a fuse and a wire on the connector. Do all of the fuses match up with wires, and all of the empty fuse positions match up with empty wire positions on the connectors?

It's a stretch, but there was a similar problem recently where another member blew their water heater fuse, but the water heater fuse was good (checked with a meter.) It turned out that a previous owner or technician and swapped a couple of the connector around (top right connector plugged into middle right socket, and vice-versa.) What that did was power the water heater from another fuse position, not the marked one. Of course, that other fuse was the one that was blown.

Moral of the story: make sure the connectors make sense (filled wires going to filled fuse positions, empty wires matching up with empty fuse positions) and also test ALL of the fuses with a meter (someone may have changed something along the way, powering the water heater from a different fuse.)
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Old 07-04-2015, 09:16 AM   #5
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While helping a friend with a 2000 Windsor with the same problem We found that there were some inline fuses hidden in different locations other than the fuse box. they look like plug in connectors but were actual inline fuses I cannot remember were we found them but there were several of them at different locations.
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Old 07-04-2015, 09:35 AM   #6
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Ihanks

I would concentrate on getting the 12 volt circuit working first. Without the 12 volt circuit you couldn't troubleshoot the water heater.

It is not likely that is the relay behind the power distribution panel as it is a low failure item.

I did check in my 12 volt distribution panel this AM. There is a 15 amp fuse for the water heater, in my case it was in slot #14, yours may be different.
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Old 07-04-2015, 10:13 AM   #7
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Chasing hidden fuses or broken wires or just normal blown fuses can be really frustrating even for a highly experienced electronic tech. I never leave home without my trusty Fox and Hound. You put the signal injector on the place where you should have voltage and then take the Hound part to sniff out where the tone is going.

The trick is having a ground side for the Fox to connect to. Grab a extension cord, plug it in, and then connect one lead of the Fox to the ground hole on the cord.

Ditto on using a test light to check both sides of fuses because they can fool you. A voltmeter can fool you too so use a test light if possible. The same trick for getting a ground lead can be used with the extension cord.
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Old 07-04-2015, 02:32 PM   #8
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Thank you all!

Thank you all who have taken time to assist me.
To Shapeshifter: I actually tested all the fuses for power on both sides. I also pulled it and tested continuity. Yes, my panel is similar and all the fuses correspond to outgoing wires.
To Doublechevy: Yep, I think it is most likely an inline fuse also. I'm just running out of places to look.
To Jacwjames: I agree with you that it is most likely the 12v circuit. In my panel it is fuse #5. I just cant figure the route from there to the switch.
To YC1: My wife would like to thank you for pointing out a tool I do not possess. Amazon Prime will rectify that on Tuesday of next week and I will try that method of running down this circuit.

Thanks again to all and please have a wonderful 4th of July.
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Old 07-04-2015, 03:55 PM   #9
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These may help a bit. Check the notes.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Notes and schematic.pdf (1.66 MB, 42 views)
File Type: pdf EMS Panel Wiring.pdf (395.0 KB, 40 views)
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:10 PM   #10
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Thank you! Success at last!

Thank you all again for all the helpful info.
Finally found the fuse with the help of the Fox and Hound recommended by YC1, and a mirror. The fuse ended up being within inches of the switches but mounted to the inside of the cabinet face. Impossible to see without using the mirror. Amazing how much trouble that little fuse generated.
Thanks again. This is our first RV and this forum has proved an invaluable resource, not only for this issue, but for many other questions I was able to research.
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:38 PM   #11
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I bet the Fox and Hound will never leave your rv. What a great tool.
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YC1 View Post
I bet the Fox and Hound will never leave your rv. What a great tool.
I need to get me one of those, but I bet it will leave the RV from time to time -- to use in the house!

Hmmm... maybe I'd better get two...
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:46 PM   #13
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Maybe if enough of us went in together we could get a discount on a bulk order for the Fox and Hound.

Ihanks
Glad you found the problem & it's fixed. Also for posting where the fuse was, I would have never thought to look there.
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