Opinion on toad brakes

[99Monaco]

M&G will be at the FMCA National Convention in Redmond, OR. this summer with there factory installer. If you call M&G and ask for MONTY he will tell you how difficult it is to install on your toad, also if you do it yourself and feel anything is wrong call and talk to him , he wants to make sure it's done right. I've installed over a hundred of these with no problems but if its a new toad to me I always call and ask for advice. I'll be going thru Boise in early May, staying at HI-VALLEY RV and will help if you want. Oh I forgot to mention the M&G is the only system with a LIFE TIME WARRANTY. I'd be happy to help if you need it. PM me JIM

[BCCanuk]

Like Dennis first said when I originally opened this thread........"get ready, here it comes!" Boy was he right! What an education! I am certainly much wiser now, almost feel like an "expert".......like they say, an EX is a has-been, a SPIRT is a drip under pressure. Following is the reasoning and rationale behind our decision in our particular application.......each has their own criteria.

We have decided to go with the M. & G. System which is a high quality piece of engineering with a Lifetime Warranty. It comes highly recommended by contributors on this Forum and suits our needs to a 'T'.........It is a proportional braking system synchronized and operating simultaneously with the air brake system of the MH, which we wanted. The automatic "Breakaway Kit" Option further provides independent emergency braking action for our "toad" should it become detached from the MH. It utilizes a firewall mounted 2"X8" pressure tank to activate the 'toad' braking system. It reduces stress on the Tow Bar and Baseplate and in our particular case it is compatible with our Jeep Wrangler 'toad' which we plan on keeping, but can be exchanged in the future if required. There is no wiring necessary and no drain on the battery. It works totally independent of the 'toad' electrical system. There is nothing to store and hooks up in about 30 seconds.....two(2) connections........Air 'quick connect' coiled line, and.......Breakaway Pin Cable.........that's it, very simple!

With this acquired knowledge in our favor we have gone ahead and ordered the above and booked professional installation for early spring. I'm sure we will be most pleased with our decision, should serve our purpose well and hope this information may be of some benefit to some of you out there.

Safe travel..........BOB

[TVforMyRV]

I'm going to chime in here. I've had the AF One installed on my own coach for about 5 years now. If your have an air brake coach, there is no question in my mind that you should want the AF1.

Going back a while in the irv2 archives, I pulled up my original review from 2008 and posted it here. There are some very minor changes and improvements since I installed mine in 2008, which in my mind only makes this an even more logical choice.

I just installed the newly revised Air Force One system two weeks ago. I say newly revised, because in late 2007 SMI released a new version of the AF1 which I believe to be far easier to install, and with fewer potential problem points.

There are now two reserve air tanks, one in the coach and one inside the toad controller to provide break-away protection. The 4-wire electrical connection between the coach and the toad is eliminated, as well as the electrical control box in the coach. The ONLY connection between the coach and the toad is, the 1/4" air line, and the break-away safety cable.

There has been some discussion about the "safety issues" involved with "cutting into" the coach air system. Well, I would say in 98% of the cases, you really don't have to "cut" any lines on the coach if you don't want to. It's just that it is usually easier to access the plastic lines at the rear of the coach and "T" into them rather than find an appropriate threaded connection to "T" into.

COACH PROTECTION
The same "protection" valves that are used by the chassis manufacturers to provide dual, redundant, and independent brake systems, are used by SMI as the "input" to the SMI supply air tank. This valve will not open unless there is at least 60-70 PSI on the Coach supply side of the system. If a catastrophic air failure were to occur between the coach and the toad, this protection valve would "protect" the coach supply by closing at approximately 60PSI. Now you say, what about the line from the coach air supply INTO the SMI valve? Well, that is now protected by whatever device or redundancy the manufacturer installed in the chassis the same that the air line was protected before you "T'd" into it. I really see no need for concern about "cutting into" the coach air system, and SMI specifically claims that their system is approved by Spartan, and meets all applicable Federal Saftey requirements.

You could really think of the SMI AF1 system this way. Instead of TWO separate and redundant braking system (front and rear axles), you now have THREE air brake systems front, rear and toad, each protected by it's own protection valve.

METERED AIR
This is the "air signal" generated by the treadle valve (foot valve) when you step on the brake pedal. This air signal is then "relayed" to the front and rear brake systems by a valve that essentially works like an air pressure controlled regulator. The air from your foot valve does not actually go to the brake chambers, it feeds/controls the relay valves which in turn allow air to go from the tanks to the brake chambers proportionally to the amount of air pressure from the foot valve. The second air connection from the coach to the SMI system is a "metered air" line which "relays" the foot valve air pressure to the toad, via a "relay" valve which is supplied by the SMI system air tank mounted on the coach. This connection can be either a "T" into an existing metered air line, or, simply remove one of the threaded plugs from one of the unused ports, in one of the coach relay valves and use that port to supply metered air to the SMI relay valve. You will most likely find these lines referred to as "service" (input to relay valve) and "delivery" (output from relay valve). The end result is that when you press the foot pedal, that air pressure signal is propagated to each of the air brake systems, front axle, rear axle, and toad, which supply air to the brake chambers and apply the brakes.

TOAD INSTALLATION
The installation in the toad is technically straight forward, just a pain in the rear sometimes to figure out where you are going to put things, and how you are going to get through the firewall, and how to find/access the brake light switch under the dash. These jobs were so much easier when I was more limber, flexible, and did not need bi-focals to see what I was doing......

The air line jumper between the coach and toad supplies air to the SMI control box when the foot pedal is pressed. The control box has a small, built in reserve tank which is used to apply the toad brakes when the break-away switch is activated. The control box also generates vacuum to the brake booster, using the coach air to drive a vacuum ejector. This allows the activating cylinder mounted on the toad brake pedal to be quite small, and still provide plenty of brake pressure to the toad brakes by utilizing the booster system in the toad. All vacuum tubing, the check valve, and potential usable tubing adapters are included with the SMI AF1 kit. There is one electrical connection between the SMI unit and the toad and this is a 12V supply going through the break-away switch. They provide an external fuse holder with a pig-tail long enough for most any situation. I simply connected the pig-tail to an empty block in the distribution box which provided un-switched 12V. When the break-away switch is pulled, this signals the SMI control unit to apply the "emergency brake". It is important that this is attached to an un-switched voltage source, since this needs t have voltage at all times when being towed.

In the previous version of AF1, you had to install a "notification light" in the cockpit of the coach, which is turned on when the toad brake pedal is depressed far enough to turn on the brake lights in the toad. This provided you with a visual confirmation that when you pressed the pedal in the coach, that the brake pedal in the toad was also depressed at least far enough to turn on the brake lights. There is still a "coach notification light", but now it is a high intensity blue LED light assembly that they suggest to be mounted to the tow bar (via Velcro) in a location that is visible in the rear view camera. Although I like the simplicity of this idea, I didn't really find what I considered a suitable location on my Blue Ox towbar to attach the little LED assembly. Instead I simply attached it to the front bumper of the Jeep Liberty and unless I find some reason to move it, I'm going to leave it on the bumper right above the air line, auxiliary brake/turn signal connector, and break-away switch. Everything "towed" related is nice and neat and tidy looking and all in one area that way.

TESTING
Checking it out in the driveway after the installation was all complete was very gratifying. Everything worked as it was supposed to, and I was pleasantly surprised at the responsiveness of the toad brake pedal when applying the coach brakes at different foot pressures. I had the DW operate the foot pedal in the coach, from my instructions via the radio, and the Jeep brake pedal moved in and out as I instructed her to apply, apply harder, apply less, etc. I was amazed at how fast the Jeep pedal responded to changes in brake pressure.


ACTUAL USE
Our first road trip was 480 miles (round trip) to the FMCA GEAR rally in Richmond, VA last week. I guess I can only sum it up by saying that as far as brakes were concerned, you didn't even know the toad was back there. The notification light came on quickly when I applied the brakes and went back off when I released the brakes.

In addition, I can tell you that the tiny reserve tank in the Jeep will hold enough air to lock up the brakes with the break away switch for months after being disconnected from the coach.

It is my understanding that the AF1 is the only system approved by both Spartan and Freightliner, and meets all appropriate DOT and FMVSS safety regulations.

Coach protection, coach notification, and toad break away protection all come standard with the AF1. An additional plus is that it relatively easy to move the system to a new toad if you trade cars.

[walt2137]

Originally Posted by stuhly

Another M&G plus is nothing to run down your battery.

I think all the systems that break the toad uses 12 volts, the brake lights will be actavated and there is the parasitic load from the ign in the accessory position, i use a charge line from the coach chassis battery to the toad battery and dont have that worry.
We have the Roadmaster Brakemaster toad brake and i think it is among the best right behind M&G.

[Traps90]

Originally Posted by walt2137

I think all the systems that break the toad uses 12 volts, the brake lights will be actavated and there is the parasitic load from the ign in the accessory position, i use a charge line from the coach chassis battery to the toad battery and dont have that worry.
We have the Roadmaster Brakemaster toad brake and i think it is among the best right behind M&G.

Not all systems have a parasitic load. Our Jeep Liberty has no steering lock and can be towed with no key in the ignition, I believe the Jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee have the same system.

[poppopc]

IMHO!!!! A brake assist is like having ins. You only need it when
You have a accident. The assist is so the ins. Co. Will pay.

[ImagineIF]

Originally Posted by walt2137

I think all the systems that break the toad uses 12 volts, the brake lights will be actavated and there is the parasitic load from the ign in the accessory position, i use a charge line from the coach chassis battery to the toad battery and dont have that worry.
We have the Roadmaster Brakemaster toad brake and i think it is among the best right behind M&G.

My toads lights are powered by my coach...not the toad's battery. My toad's brakes don't use power at all. The only toad power I need is for break-away. Then it's solely to dump the air tank to apply the brakes. I use AF 1.

[walt2137]

Originally Posted by ImagineIF

My toads lights are powered by my coach...not the toad's battery. My toad's brakes don't use power at all. The only toad power I need is for break-away. Then it's solely to dump the air tank to apply the brakes. I use AF 1.

How does the AF1 break the toad then if not by activating the toad brakes if so the toad lights will power on, If not tell me how it does it without actavating the lights. I know all the toads i have used the brakemaster on did.

[deSanford]

Hi Walt let me see if I can explain how the AF-1 works. When I step on the motor home brakes the toad brakes lights go on. This happens without going through the Mini's wiring system. I put a separate combination brake and turn signal light into the Mini's rear light housing. Separate wires go to the rear brake lights of the motor home. My key is in the ignition with the ignition in the OFF position. By not having the key in the "on" position I'm not draining my battery on the Mini. My steering wheel on the Mini turns as long as I don't take the key out after turning the engine off. Of course if everything disconnects the Mini's brake lights will not be on. All in all I find NO issues with the SMI AF-1. It works as advertised and it is easy to hook up and detach.......who could want anything more? deSanford

[walt2137]

Thanks DE when you get a chance could you tell me the brand a part number of the deal that blocks the toad brake lights?

[ImagineIF]

Walt, one thing at a time.

Normal braking is done by my MH transferring air that is proportional to my braking. That air goes to a tank and air cylinder in my tow. The tank gathers air two purposes. One to create vacuum for the power brakes and to store air for emergency break-away. The air cylinder pulls the brake pedal in direct proportion to the coach's brakes. Absolutely no tow power used or needed.

Break-away is triggered by an electrical pull switch. When the cable that is hooked to the coach pulls the switch a momentary need for towed voltage is required. It activates a solenoid at the air tank to trigger the air cylinder.

The lights for my tow, brakes and running, are hooked up to my coach's lights. My tow does not display brake lights with the vehicle off.

[tricotec]

Originally Posted by walt2137

How does the AF1 break the toad then if not by activating the toad brakes if so the toad lights will power on, If not tell me how it does it without actavating the lights. I know all the toads i have used the brakemaster on did.

On toads with braking systems that activate the brake pedal, you are supposed to install a relay which defeats the cars normal brake lights when towing. This is so the RV's turn/brake signals will not be overridden by the toad's brake lights if you are turning and braking at the same time.

Nice thing about the M & G system is that it does not depress the brake pedal (directly actuates the master cylinder) so the car's brake lights don't come on.

[tricotec]

Originally Posted by walt2137

Thanks DE when you get a chance could you tell me the brand a part number of the deal that blocks the toad brake lights?

Here is a link to a Roadmaster kit for blocking your cars brake lights when towing. You need a 12VDC supply from the coach trailer light plug which will pick up the relay when you're motor home's ignition is on. This will defeat the brake lights until you pull the plug from your motorhome.

Roadmaster Brake-Lite Relay Kit for Towed Vehicles Roadmaster Tow Bar Braking Systems RM-88400

[gruelens]

Originally Posted by CampDaven

I have an original BrakeBuddy. It is 14 years old. Now have MH with air brakes, and have no idea why I would invest in another system.

I can install it in less than a minute, and it is being used on toad #2.

I purchased a used Brake Buddy. Have now fulltimed with it for over 11 years.

There is no completely right or wrong answer to which toad braking system. Thankfully there are many choices and price ranges. The right answer is to have one and use it. It does not matter if you are driving a small class C or a 45' tag axle, the weight of the toad will push you when stopping. In a panic stop situation a foot or two extra stopping distance can make a big difference in the outcome.