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Old 12-12-2017, 03:13 PM   #15
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Scangauge D looks like a no-go

I talked to Scangauge phone tech support but did not get much real help. Lady advised that maybe what I have found isn't a good connection or it isn't a real connection for the ECU diagnostics. So I tried electrical cleaner spray on the coach connection and WD40 to help pins slide in all the way. (The behavior of the device when connected to 6 pin is endless "connecting" message on the display). The only connector I could use on the Scangauge cable was the J1708, the 6 pin connector as that was all I could find in the coach. What bothers me now is I have located what appears to be the wiring diagram for the ECU and it has numerous references to J1939 protocol, which is the 9 pin connector on the Scangauge cable. So I don't really know which protocol the M11 E+ engine uses. If any of you colleagues have this engine and have made Scangauge D work, please advise which connector you used - the 6 pin or the 9 pin.

So as of now I seem to be at a dead end and will probably return the device unless I magically find another connector with 9 pins.
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Old 12-12-2017, 06:13 PM   #16
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Blue, The VMSPC I have works off the same data feed as the Scanguage you have. I am using the 6 pin Deutsch J1708 connector under the dash, there is also a 12 pin J1708 / J1587 nearby with a rectangular gray cover that says "diagnostic connector" on it. I believe they are connected together - 2 different ways to make the same connection. The 6 pin has a shorting plug tethered to it - 2 pin weatherpack connector. This is all mirrored in the electrical drawing I have - I have 2 electrical diagram books, one is green and says "99 Executive Series Wiring Diagrams May 1998" the other is Red and says "99 Executive Series Wiring Diagrams August 1998". There are some differences in them - different drawings etc. and everything is arranged differently - but the electrical diagram I believe references this area is the same in both. The electrical drawing I have is DWG. No: 99E-HILL and is titled EXECUTIVE CELECT PLUS / HILLAM CUSTOM CONTROLS. It has several references to J1939, J1922, and J1587; In the upper left corner there is a dashed line square that says "6- pin DEUTSCH", follow the circuits back and you see the shorting plug and the plug it plugs into when used called out as "2-pin packard" connectors.following those circuits back on the diagram gets me to a couple of circuits marked "vehicle data link (+) J1587" and "vehicle data link (-) J1587". they land on block "B" and that's as far as I've gotten. When I ordered the Silverleaf dongle or "JIB" from RVupgrades.com I ordered a 6-pin connector - got the right one, it worked - never thought about it any further. If you go to Silverleafs website for the PC version; VMSpc | SilverLeaf Electronics, Inc.
you can see they don't really reference the protocol - down at the bottom of the page there is a link to the "connector document" where you can see the various connectors and corresponding protocols. It seems to me after looking at all of this, the primary issue is getting the connectors married up so that you have the data, power, and ground connected correctly - and they can read the data no matter the protocol as long as its in the right place.... Hope this helps.
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Old 12-12-2017, 06:24 PM   #17
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PS. There are any number of threads on the VMSPC by Silverleaf on here - this is mine - day after Thanksgiving coming up the hill (6% grade I think?) on I-17 headed from Phoenix north towards Flagstaff loaded with leftovers and pulling my 99GMC. Don't know why the photos are getting rotated when I upload them....)
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:23 AM   #18
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Thanks for info

Hi Kurt,
Thanks for the detailed post. I have the May 1998 wiring diagrams, had been looking at them yesterday on the Hillam controls page. I understand a bit more each time I study this page. It looks from your photo that you have better access to the connector plug than I do. I probably will have to open up the gauges panel to see the stuff from the top instead of trying to bend myself around the steering column.

Do you know where the actual ECU is located? Is it up front or back with the engine? Knowing that might help me. Also, the tech rep at Scangauge thought there might be a third connector plug back at the engine. Do you know if that is right or not? Makes sense that mechanics would want one back there.
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbigblue View Post
Hi Kurt,

Thanks for the detailed post. I have the May 1998 wiring diagrams, had been looking at them yesterday on the Hillam controls page. I understand a bit more each time I study this page. It looks from your photo that you have better access to the connector plug than I do. I probably will have to open up the gauges panel to see the stuff from the top instead of trying to bend myself around the steering column.



Do you know where the actual ECU is located? Is it up front or back with the engine? Knowing that might help me. Also, the tech rep at Scangauge thought there might be a third connector plug back at the engine. Do you know if that is right or not? Makes sense that mechanics would want one back there.


The ECM is mounted on the passenger side of the engine. Monaco seemed to mount a second connector back in the engine compartment. I have a 1st generation ISM which is just up stream from yours. I have a connector in the engine compartment just inside the hatch mounted to a cross member.
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Old 12-13-2017, 11:35 AM   #20
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Hi Harry,

Like you - I figure out a little more every time I look at the schematics. As Steve noted, the ECU is on the passenger side of the block, on mine its just in front and below that engine data plate. As Steve does, I'm sure we also have the engine bay diagnostic connector. Just looking at the diagram a little further, I believe the blocks in the diagram - on the far right labeled A and C, and the one I mentioned earlier labeled B, are the connectors on the ECU. About 3/4 of the way down on the right hand side of the page they show a 6 pin with J1587 to it. I may have seen one, can't remember. I'll take a look later today and see if I can spot it. I also remember a connector in the front run bay - but I think that may be transmission only, not sure.
The reason I have better under-dash access, is that I removed the flat panel at the bottom of the dash and spent some time zip tying everything up out of sight and danger. I've had a couple of issues to run down and its way easier to crawl underneath than to pull the dash pod. Don't pull just the flat dash panel that contains the gauges ( see the "dash panel back lighting page"), you have to pull the whole pod and find all of the hidden screws...
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:49 PM   #21
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Kurt, & Steve,
Thanks for new info that keeps me hoping that I will find a connector that actually transmits data the Scangauge D will recognize for the values I want. Hate to send it back if it might actually work.

Best to all who responded.
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:00 AM   #22
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Found the ECU, no diagnostic connector nearby

I found the ECU thanks to info on its location. Regrettably, no evidence of a diagnostic plug like the ones up front (one under dash, one in front run panel) anywhere near the ECU nor anywhere else in engine compartment laying there open to the Scangauge connector. I think the wiring diagrams are just a bit over my pay grade as the old saying goes - for example, what in the world is a a "shorting plug"? Sounds like a bad thing to do, that to me means shorting hot to ground and that usually makes lots of sparks - like negative terminal of battery shorted to positive to test for enough voltage in a battery to accomplish a start, for example. And, the location of the various components is not documented for all components.

On another front, I wanted access to behind the gauges on dash, so I looked for a way to remove leatherette around dash panel but it looked impossible so I just removed all the Phillips screws in dash panel and it eventually could be wiggled out. I think the warning not to do that in the wiring diagrams is because the panel is so weak/flimsy they are afraid we will break it. Anyway, I can at least get to the boost gauge and engine oil pressure gauge which are my two non-working ones. I also have fair access (not good) to jungle of wires under dash to try to trace the diagnostic plug and see if it is missing some connections.

And it all sounded so simple on the Scangauge D website - just plug it in and the world is yours.
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:34 PM   #23
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Hi Harry. I looked mine over pretty good a couple of times - and I can't find one in the engine compartment either. I'm sure there is one there somewhere....
A shorting plug is just a connector with a loop of wire that when plugged in connects the appropriate circuits in the ECM to put it into diagnostic mode. If you google it you can find a little bit of info about how this works - not used much anymore I don't think. But - its easy to identify so you can tell if you have physically found the wires referred to in the schematic. I think you probably have the correct plug under the dash - at least in my coach there is only one Deutsch connecter under there - so the issue has to be somewhere between the ECM and the plug - possibly in the "bulkhead" connector shown in the schematic (not sure where that is) - or in the adapter to the scangauge. It would be fairly easy with a voltmeter to trace the B+ and B- through the connector to make sure they are there at the connection to the scanguage - but I don't know how to test for a data signal...
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