RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Monaco Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login

Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-05-2015, 08:19 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 82
RACKING and TWISTING WHEN LEVELING

I have a 05 Dip. and when leveling there is an issue with racking and twisting. Wondering if I'm doing something wrong. Just the slightest movement will rack the basement doors and the upper right corner of the windshield shows twisting. Stopped using the on-board level and now use my iPhone with an app that has a level, placed in the refer. Seems to do a little better, but if I need to do anything more than stabilizing then there is windshield and compartment/s (between the wheels) movement. Have had the rig for two summers now.
__________________

timeforus is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-05-2015, 10:48 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SF peninsula
Posts: 169
RACKING and TWISTING WHEN LEVELING

A few years back, I had my '04 Holiday Rambler 40 ft imperial up on jacks and I extended one of the slides and the upper passenger side of the windshield cracked. I lived with that windshield until it started to generate glass splinters on the dashboard. After that, I was careful to only extend/retract the slides only when the air suspension was at ride height, which was the Monaco recommendation. One of the things I noticed was that the windshield shifted around a great deal while the coach is being moved.

When the windshield was replaced, the shop was careful to glue it into the rubber gasket. I questioned them and they said that glueing was the recommended installation process. I don't recall if the casket was glued to the fiberglas opening, bit I'm pretty sure that it is. Now nothing shifts around during leveling. The windshield has held up for a couple of years and some 12k miles of travel without incident. I'm beginning to believe that the windshield is an integral structural element of the coach and that glueing contributes to the stiffness of the coach. I also suspect that even though the jacks are a three point system, they can induce some twisting moment to the structure, perhaps caused by the fact that they lift the frame directly, rather than the air bags which act as a more distributed force.

Dick L
__________________

RCLImperial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:08 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
walt2137's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Quitman MS
Posts: 2,954
When parking slide out then level by front jack down to at least touch then level with rears, leaving start the coach jacks should retract air up slide in.
__________________
Walt & Will
2000 Dynasty
2017 Ram Big Horn Crew C 4X4 w/ M&G
walt2137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 03:55 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 82
RACKING and TWISTING WHEN LEVELING

Thanks for your responses. I always retract or extend the slides when bags are powered up. After extending the slides, I dump the air then always extent front jack first, then rears as needed. Seems like the more the rears are extended the more the basement doors rack.
timeforus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 04:21 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
walt2137's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Quitman MS
Posts: 2,954
That is a unusual, I'm sorry but The only thing I can think of is To get under the coach and inspect everything looking for a crack on suspension or frame.
__________________
Walt & Will
2000 Dynasty
2017 Ram Big Horn Crew C 4X4 w/ M&G
walt2137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2015, 10:52 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
ShapeShifter's Avatar


 
Monaco Owners Club
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCLImperial View Post
I also suspect that even though the jacks are a three point system, they can induce some twisting moment to the structure, perhaps caused by the fact that they lift the frame directly, rather than the air bags which act as a more distributed force.
There are those who say that racking is not possible with a three point jack. They are wrong: it can and does happen. I've seen it.

It definitely happens if you don't extend the front jack enough to act as a pivot. If the site has a significant lean to it, you must extend the front jack enough so that neither front axle bump stop comes into play. If you raise the lower corner so much that it pivots on the front jack and then then the high corner hits the front axle bump stop, you will get a lot of twist.

The hardest sites to level on are where the back end is lower than the front, and the site also slopes to the side. That was exactly what we ran into last weekend. The issue is that you need to raise the front enough so it has room to do the sideways pivot, but you don't want to do that because it means that the back needs to be even higher. But the need to pivot trumps all. I ended up driving my rear wheels up on the blocks I normally carry, and borrowing some concrete blocks from the campground to put under the rear jacks. However, I still couldn't get completely level: I raised the front quite a bit to give me a pivot, and the front axle still hit the high side bump stop before I was level side to side. I finally did get it mostly level side to side, but I had to raise the front enough that I spent the weekend with a bit of a front/back slope.

I was on the proper three point pivot with the front axle free of the stops, yet the coach still had a noticeable rack to it - the top passenger corner of the windshield was a bit out of place, and the driver side basement doors had enough of a rack to them that when opened they didn't clear the bottom of the slide. There was no permanent damage, but racking can and does happen on particularly difficult sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walt2137 View Post
then level by front jack down to at least touch then level with rears
Not just touching, but raise the front of the coach at least an inch or two after touching, then level with the rears. But as described above, if the side-to-side level of the site is very bad, you will have to raise the front more than an inch or two, even if it's the front side that's high.

The best bet is to find a site that's level in both directions. If that's not possible, my preferences are a site that's lower in front than in back and pretty level side to side, followed by a site that's only slightly lower in back than in front yet still fairly level side to side. My last choices are sites that have a significant side to side lean, especially if they are low in back.

I've found that it's the side to side adjustment that causes the most racking.
__________________
Adam and Sue, and a pack of little furballs
2007 Holiday Rambler Endeavor 40PDQ Limited Edition - Cummins ISL 400
2013 Ford F-150 FX4 toad - USGear Unified Tow Brake, Roadmaster Blackhawk II Tow bar, Blue Ox baseplate
Home base near Buffalo NY, often on the road to a dog show
ShapeShifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 05:24 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 82
RACKING and TWISTING WHEN LEVELING

WOW! Thanks so much for what appears to be some very knowledgeable info. I usually make the front jack just make ground contact, raise the rears (even if it's just a little) and when I exit the rig, see that the windshield has moved in the upper curb side corner and basement doors are racked. I will try to raise the front a little more and then raise and level with the rears. What's your opinion on how the windshield must be installed, totally sealed or not. Again, thanks
timeforus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 05:47 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
ShapeShifter's Avatar


 
Monaco Owners Club
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by timeforus View Post
What's your opinion on how the windshield must be installed, totally sealed or not.

That's a tough one, I can see both sides of the argument. Mine is not glued in place: neither on the glass nor fiberglass sides of the gasket. I can see the benefit there where it would allow the glass to shift around to relieve stress, but it allows it to pop out more easily. That happened to me where a corner came loose: took it to a glass shop, the worked on it a bit to get the glass back in the gasket and mostly in place, and didn't charge me for it. The flexing from driving home from the glass shop worked it back fully into place.

If it were glued in place, it would be less likely to pop out. But it's that movement the relieves the stresses, so I would think that a glued in windshield would be more likely to crack? It may get some extra strength from the body, and give some extra strength to the body to help absorb flex, but at some point it's going to be too much for the glass?

I only have two experiences with windshields under twisting forces: my non-glued windshield which popped a corner out, and was free ton fix, and a friends glued windshield which got a dozen cracks in it running down the driver's side where it curves back to the sidewall. I'm not disappointed that mine isn't glued.
__________________
Adam and Sue, and a pack of little furballs
2007 Holiday Rambler Endeavor 40PDQ Limited Edition - Cummins ISL 400
2013 Ford F-150 FX4 toad - USGear Unified Tow Brake, Roadmaster Blackhawk II Tow bar, Blue Ox baseplate
Home base near Buffalo NY, often on the road to a dog show
ShapeShifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 06:02 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SF peninsula
Posts: 169
Been thinking about the racking of the coach and have come to some conclusions about the subject. When they put slides into a coach, you affect the structural stiffness. The coach is stiffer and more resistant to wracking when the slides are in. The stiffness is augmented by the close contact of the outer skin structure of the slide. In the out position, there is less structural support, because it relies on the inner frame of the slide. Anywhere in between in and out, there is little support, because the slide has little contact with the coach walls. I believe that this is the rationale for only extending the slides while the air suspension is at run height.

Another conclusion that I have come to is that the three point jacks can't protect against wracking. The coach frame has to be somewhat flexible, because the alternative is to beef it up until it is so heavy that it affected the weight and cost. Consider a flexible plate with a three point support, at three of the four corners. If you place weight at the unsupported corner, the plate will flex. Our coaches have the front support at the center line, but there is np guarantee that the side to side weight is uniform. This side to side imbalance can cause wracking.

In the case where I cracked my windshield by extending one slide when it was up on jacks, I think that the side to side weight imbalance was what caused the wracking. Also, during the slide extension, the coach stiffness was compromised by the slide no longer being in full contact with the walls.

These coaches are by their nature are fragile and need to be carefully handled, and everything in the structure is contributing to their resistance to wracking.

Just my thoughts...

Dick L. '04 HR Imperial 40 ft
RCLImperial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 08:46 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
ShapeShifter's Avatar


 
Monaco Owners Club
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,632
Dick, I think you have some very valid thoughts. Yes, I agree that cutting holes in the sides of the coach for slides affects rigidity, that's one of the reasons I was afraid to go with the 40SFT model at the time I bought mine - it has a full wall slide, the first year that they did it (I think) and I was just to concerned about losing the structural integrity of the whole side of the coach.

You mention the added rigidity when the slides are in, I'm not convinced that really makes much of a difference. I suppose there could be a little in/out movement of a corner when the body is racked, and the flange of the slideout might help prevent that. But I'm thinking that any racking is going to have a tendency to affect the squareness of the slide opening more than anything, which will cause the wall to slide sideways compared to the slide flange, and and I don't see the wall/flange interface really doing anything to prevent that.

I agree with your comment about the three point system not preventing racking. I think it greatly reduces racking compared to an improperly deployed four jack system, but the possibility for twist still exists - especially if the front isn't raised enough and one of the front bump stops makes contact: that would turn the three point system into an improperly deployed four contact point system (three jacks and the bump stop.)
__________________
Adam and Sue, and a pack of little furballs
2007 Holiday Rambler Endeavor 40PDQ Limited Edition - Cummins ISL 400
2013 Ford F-150 FX4 toad - USGear Unified Tow Brake, Roadmaster Blackhawk II Tow bar, Blue Ox baseplate
Home base near Buffalo NY, often on the road to a dog show
ShapeShifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2015, 08:46 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,022
First you need to understand your jacks.. Since I am not looking at your Rig I am not sure of your jacks, but there are basically 3 systems I will describe,, NOTE: Hydraulic or electric does not matter save for systems 1 and 3

1: 3-jack system, One front center, one on each side in the rear
2: 4 Jack system (Two front jacks work together however so act as one)
3: 4 (or six) jacks system, all jacks independent of the other.

Mine is #2 (power gear)

My PDI technician said he liked to put down the Rear jacks first, then the FRONT, then work to level it... WRONG

Put the FRONT down first on systems 1 and 2.. ON system 2 they balance and act like a single point centered.. This way the front of the RV can "Rock" side to side on that single point.. THEN use your rear jacks to balance front to back and side to side.

Alas, if you have independent jacks.. None of this helps.
__________________

__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
leveling



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.