Slides, Leveling, Engine - Puzzled Rookie?

[Injun Joe]

I'm a relative newbie (four months full-timing). As I've learned about my coach and researched the forums I've noticed some quirky things that seem to relate mostly to Monaco motor homes.

As I understand it, here are the rules from Monaco/Lippert/CAT:

1. Slides can only be extended/retracted when the engine is not running and the coach is at full ride height. The basic rule is extend slides first, then level.

2. The Lippert auto leveling system can only be operated with the engine running.

3. The CAT C-9 engine should only be started when one intends to drive the coach at least enough miles to bring the engine/transmission up to normal, full operating temperatures.


If I follow these rules correctly, what this means in practice is the following:

1. When leaving camp, start engine, retract jacks and wait for coach to achieve full ride height and full air pressure.

2. Shut off engine and retract slides.

3. Re-start engine and drive off.

4. In a similar manner, when arriving at camp, shut off engine, extend slides, re-start engine, run auto leveling, then shut off engine.

Therefore, the engine must be started TWICE, both on arrival and departure.

Another related issue is that I apparently should not start the engine, for example, simply to bring up the air pressure to fill the tires, without actually driving the coach.

So apparently I have some contradictions that I am unable to reconcile.

Have I interpreted the foregoing correctly? I have seen aspects of these issues discussed before, but mainly without resolution.

Any grizzled Monaco veterans, or others, have words of advice? Thanks.

[LewF]

Joe, do you have air leveling? Let me know and then I can answer some of your questions better. Our new coach has air leveling and our last coach, 2007 Endeavor, had hydraulic leveling. There is a difference in how each is leveled. The requirement to turn the engine off to move the slides is dictated by the fact that you cannot move the slides with the engine running (key in run position) since there is an electrical safety interlock between the ignition and the slide controls.

We have had lots of experience, good and bad, with leveling systems and are glad to help. Many on the forum will have comments as well I suspect.

On running or idling the engine too long - I think you have a DPF (diesel particulate filter, I think) in the exhaust which allows the engine to meet 2007 emission requirements. The DPF actually collects and burns some of the particulate in the exhaust (note how the exhaust pipe is clean as opposed to older diesels) and prolonged idling doesn't produce enough heat to burn the particulates. There is a system recycle process that is automatic but you have to be driving at highway speeds and even that doesn't kick in until the DPF is pretty loaded up. I wouldn't be concerned about the starting and idling you are talking about but just don't leave the unit idling for long periods like many do with older non-ULSD engines. The DPF will clean up very nicely if you are traveling at highway speeds in most cases without even having to go into a recycle mode (your OM will tell you about this). I have seen a few reports of problems with it loading up and then plugging up (the the ECM will begin to limit engine power output if that happens) and needing servicing. Probably more than you want to know about these things but our coaches are complicated beasts and I believe the more I know the better.

Lew

[DP01]

Hi Joe:

What you are experiencing is exactly as described in the Owner's manuals for various 2009 Monaco products having the Lippert levelling system. The Lippert system is highly voltage sensitive and ostensibly requires the engine running to provide adequate voltage for operation.

Happily, there is a work-around. Plug into shore power, then activate the levelling system. If the "Low Voltage" light does not extinguish, depress the "Battery Boost" switch. After a few seconds the light should extinguish and you may proceed with levelling. (It's best to keep the boost switch depressed until leveling is complete).

When departing, remain plugged into shore power until the jacks are retracted. Again, if the "Low Voltage" light is illuminated, depress the "Battery Boost" switch.

No more engine starting and stopping!

The above requires that the "Trombetta" battery interconnect contactor is functional. Not just clicks, but actually makes electrical contact- some suffer from contact corrosion.

Hope this helps.

Dennis

[deadeye916]

Sounds about right. One thing, the engine does not need to be running for leveling/air dump. I just turn the key to the ACC position, ie. where the dash lights come on but you do not engage the starter, then you can dump air and level.

When leaving I do not start the engine to extract the level pads, just turn the key and bring them up. Then when the light goes out on the leveling control pad, I turn it off and start the engine to air up. Once air is full I shut off the engine and bring in the slides.

FWIW, I disconnect shore power before beginning departure procedures. No problems with having enough battery power to level and start engine. I noticed that when I am plugged into shore power and start the engine I get an ALT FAIL warning light. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing, so I now disconnect before starting the engine.

Upon arrival to a CG the first thing I do after parking is hook up shore power, water, and if needed, sewer. I do this first so I don't have to crawl under the slide outs to do it later. Then deploy the slides. Then dump air. Then level.

When leaving a CG the first thing I do is disconnect power, water and sewer. Next is retract the levelers. Then start up the coach and air up. Shut off engine and bring in the slides.

[LewF]

Joe, I looked at the brochure for your coach and I think you have an RR10R chassis with hydraulic leveling. Three or four jacks?? - it makes a difference. If it is hydraulic I would do exactly as the owners manual says. On the three jack RR8R chassis we only moved the slides when the coach was full up to ride height to ensure the chassis was not flexed by the leveling system. Note that when the air bags are dumped the chassis is hard down on the suspension and can take on what ever contour your site has, which may be twisted. There is much debate on this but I always follow the manufacturer's instruction - can't hurt. If you have air leveling then the engine needs to be running when leveling to provide air if the tanks get too low. There is a small air compressor dedicated to the air level system but it really only has the capacity to "trim" the system when it is left in automatic. The hydraulic leveling system can distort the chassis if not deployed per the manufacturers directions and apparently that could crack the large one piece windshield. On our 2007 RR8R chassis (three jacks) it was necessary to always put the front single jack down to allow the chassis to pivot on this single point while moving the rear two jacks around. As someone noted you only have to have the ignition in the ACC position for the air dump to work but the engine has to be running to bring the coach up to ride height to bring in the slides. I only leveled manually in our old coach after we had a bad experience with "auto" losing a sense of "level" and tipping the coach way over. Manual leveling was also much smoother than the jerky process that auto produced on our old coach.

These are my opinions and how I understood and operated our hydraulic system with a full wall slide but I would listen to all then decide how you want to operate. Anyway you look at it you will have to start engine and then stop it to move the slides if you only move them when the coach is fully air bag suspended. Hope this helps and doesn't confuse things.

Lew

[gripper]

Now, I'm confused. I thought extending the slides, before leveling, could possibly damage, or cause the slides to jam! Roland

[Jim Stewart]

Gripper, Monaco is one of the only manufacturers that recommends slides first then level. Most of the Monaco MH have three leveling jacks. Some believe that 3 are better than four for chassis flex. Some disagree, hence, the reason for both types.

In Monaco's case they believe that the slides are installed with the coach aired up and jacks retracted and thats the way the slides should be extended or retracted. A while back I pondered on the dynamics of the flexing chassis on three verses four jack systems and agree with Monaco.

[Injun Joe]

Here is some additional info as requested:

1. The coach is an RR10R chassis with hydraulic leveling and 3 jacks.

2. The coach does have a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). I have experienced some regen cycles and have discussed it with the CAT people. They say mainly it will occur while on the road, after a number of parameters have been met, and I probably would not even notice it, which has been the case. But, I think it's good to know that short idling periods will probably not harm the engine. I try to minimize such occurrences.

3. I understand that I may be able to retract the jacks without starting the engine, but I was under the impression that I had to start the engine to retract the jacks AND wait to air up to full ride height before retracting slides. This is according to the documentation and DVD that came with the coach. Am I missing something here?

4. Dan, I do exactly as you described when leaving. Again, however, this requires starting up twice, which for the life of me I can't see how to avoid if you follow all the manufacturer's instructions. I think each manufacturer has their own rules for their products, but I'm not sure they ever talk to each other as to how the products integrate with each other.

5. Roland: I think the "slides first, then level" is mainly a Monaco thing. Your Fleetwood probably has different guidelines.


Thanks, folks, for the input and suggestions. I guess I'll try them out.

[Mandys Man]

Originally Posted by gripper

Now, I'm confused. I thought extending the slides, before leveling, could possibly damage, or cause the slides to jam! Roland

Gripper,
Hi, thanks for posting.
The slides out, dump air, then level seems to be a Monaco specific set of instructions. Seems to confuse people all the time.
One thing I read above is: "When leaving a CG the first thing I do is disconnect power, water and sewer. Next is retract the levelers."
I would suggest airing up before retraction of the jacks. This way the pressure is already off the jacks and they are much smoother releasing.

[gripper]

Got it. Thanks. Roland

[BigSkyBob]

I agree with MandysMan. I always air up first then retract the jacks. That way I can't even feel the jacks come up which relates to less stress on the system.

[Injun Joe]

I too air up (run the engine until PSI goes to about 132 and I hear the chuff sound). I'm assuming I'm aired up at this point?

However, when I retract the jacks, for the first several seconds, I get a violent shudder/shake before the jacks retract. Is this normal? Doesn't seem so.

[LewF]

Joe, you have to make sure the jack shafts are lubed with silicon spray and that the seals are greased according to directions. If not then the jacks will not retract, or for that matter extend, smoothly. Look at the jacks after you have retracted them to make sure they have fully retracted. If they have not, sometimes just a small amount, I found this always meant I needed to use the spray on the jack barrel. I would manually extend the jacks to just touching the ground and them give them a good spray then retract - our experience was that this always helped. We also had a pretty severe jerk when we pressed the button to retract the jacks and never found a good solution to this situation. The idea of airing up before retracting sounds good, never tried it, as long as it lifts the jacks off the ground and doesn't actually put more load on one end than when you were leveled.

A couple of other comments that may or may not be helpful. I would make sure I was comparing apples with apples when it comes to the coach chassis, Roadmaster to Roadmaster and probably RR10R to RR10R although an RR8R is probably close, a little shorter and no tag axle but you do have a different coupling between the actual coach and the front and rear suspension trusses. Finally for what it is worth we always leave the shore power connect to the very last moment, in other words air up and at travel height, slides in, all water, sewer and TV disconnected and otherwise ready to travel. Don't know why for sure but it always seamed a little cleaner to do so and made sure I had good power until the last minute. To each his own.

Lew

[whmprt]

Because of having to have the air bags inflated to move the slideouts, and not wanting to start the engine to inflate, I bought a compressor (150psi) and rigged to plug onto the fitting for the coach air system. I included a dryer in the setup to keep moisture out of the air system. Now when severe weather is forecast, just hook up the compressor and inflate. It also can also air tires to 120 psi, recommended on my coach.
Bill M o3 Contessa