Some things I noticed at the Tampa RV Show

[nodine]

We had never seen a Navistar built coach until this week at the Tamp RV Show. I must say that the quality and workmanship appeared to be significantly improved over the old Monaco. There seems to now be some emphasis on engineering. One thing is that on rear radiator coaches Navistar does not stack the heat exchangers. Just from looking, it appears that the radiator is on the street side and the charge cooler is on the road side. The street side has a door that opens for access to the coolant overflow tank. Guess what, you can now actually see the coolant level through the tank. The front and rear caps on the Diplomat and Knight will take a long time for us to get used to. Can you say ugly! My wife and I thought the Endeavor (Holiday Rambler version of Diplomat) front and rear caps were slightly more pleasing to the eye than the sister Diplomat. The rear radiator coaches we saw all appeared to have the MaxForce engine. The Dynasty had a Cummins. I think it was an ISX. Guess they still have some in inventory. You can bet as soon as they run out the big bore converted Cat will go in. Why would Navistar, who makes diesel engines, purchase engines from Cummins!

Speaking of the Dynasty, sweeeete! Above my pay code at over 500K show price.

Bob

[Mike Canter]

Interesting point about the Cummins motors. Navistar has both the MaxxForce 13 and 15 motors which make more than enough power to push that Dynasty. Either they have an ongoing contract still with Cummins or it the cost of putting in a MaxxForce 13/15 DP motor and all that goes with it is too high on dollars right now or there is an engineering problem in making one a pusher. The MaxxForce 15 is the biggest they make for busses/motorhomes/trucks

Motorhome Engines | MaxxForce

[Stretch]

Mike: Where did the MaxxForce 13 and 15 liter engines come from? Are they rebranded yellow paint CAts now that Cat is out of the on highway business?

[moisheh]

I think the 15 is a Cat with some Navistar injection pieces. I did not think it was ready to be sold or that it was EPA approved yet. But it still does not have the HP of the Cummins. I would not want any vehicle with that motor for at least 2 yearsl

[Mike Canter]

I do know that the Maxxforce 15 is really a CAT C-15 relabeled motor. Not sure about the others. My understanding is CAT is making the bottom half of the motor...block, crank, rods and pistons and Navistar is making the head and everything else. Not real sure but my neighbor works for Navistar and I will ask hime and see if I can get the whole story.

[nodine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Canter Interesting point about the Cummins motors. Navistar has both the MaxxForce 13 and 15 motors which make more than enough power to push that Dynasty. Either they have an ongoing contract still with Cummins or it the cost of putting in a MaxxForce 13/15 DP motor and all that goes with it is too high on dollars right now or there is an engineering problem in making one a pusher. The MaxxForce 15 is the biggest they make for busses/motorhomes/trucks Motorhome Engines | MaxxForce

Mike,

I believe that Navistar acquired a number of Cummins engines when they purchased the old Monaco. They probably needed time to engineer in the MaxxForce plus they did not want to waste all those Cummins engines. Since all the rear radiator coaches we saw had the MaxxForce I would guess they have used all the ISL and ISC engines up. They may still have a few ISX engines since they have not been building many high end coaches like the Signature.

Bob

[itdave]

My understanding is the Navistar made a deal with CAT to use there big bore engines but modify them so they could meet EPA standards using the Navistar EGR system. So I think Bob has the correct answer as to what is happening.

[Retd_ontheRd]

Did a plant tour in Coburg OR last month and saw a dozen or so Cummins engines in a storage area. Tour guide stated once these engines were used up they would switch all coach production to Navistar engines.

Also, motorhome production was to cease in Coburg by March 2012 in favour of plants in Indiana.

[Mike Canter]

Thats interesting, were they the Cummins big ISX motors or smaller ones? Used to be all the big motors were installed by Pacific Power Products which is about a 1/4 mile down the road then the chassis with the motor is driven down to the Monaco plant to have the body put on.

[Retd_ontheRd]

Sorry Mike, didn't notice which Cummins were there.

[deSanford]

I believe only the LARGE Cummins engines are left. I have one of the last little Cummins engines in my Cayman. Shortly there after Navastar Monaco started using their engines in the Knight coaches and stopped making the Caymans. Both the Cayman and Knight have the same floor plan. deSanford

[Fire-EMS]

I'm pretty sure that the MaxxForce engine is an international. CAT decided that they were completely leaving the over the road market. Also its my understanding that Monaco/International is negotiating with Cummins due to the lack of acceptance of the IH motors.

[Mike Canter]

Fire-Ems you might find this interesting.

International Will Have 15-liter MaxxForce Engine for 2010 - Truckinginfo.com

[Fire-EMS]

My mistake Mike. Wasn't up on the 15.