Starting battery problems.

[slickest1]

Hi, I have an 2001 HR Imperial with a ISC Cummins 350 Last summer on a trip the alternator died. I replaced the alternator and all was fine till I got home after a 4hr drive. No problems along the way everything worked as it should, and after being home I shut it off and restarted to move it and it started fine, the battery was fully charged. The next morning I went to start it and the battery was completely dead. Had the Battery checked and it was toast and it is only 1 year old. It is a big 8d single battery. I put a new battery in and all was well. The coach has sat for a couple months and last weekend I went to start it for a weekend trip and it was dead. I had started it a couple of times while it was sitting. I used the battery boost to start it and it started right up, so we continued on our 2 hr drive to our destination and after getting there I shut it off and restarted it a couple times. Seemed fully charged again. Next morning nothing and the battery boost wouldn't work either. The genset started right up so I left it run for a bit and used the battery boost and it started. I got back home and it sat for 3 days and would start fine and now it is dead again. When I turned they key on and tried to start it the speedo and tach. started to wind backward. Is it another bad battery? When I unhook the battery leads there is still power coming to the cable even with both battery disconnect switches off. There is still power to the starter pos. terminal as well. The coach has a solar panel and charger as well is this where the power is coming from? I don' know how to shut it off but I have a manual so will read. Sorry for the long post and will appreciate any Ideas.

[RustyTools]

Poor wire/cable contact somewhere? Bad starter solenoid?

[slickest1]

I have checked the wires and connections and they seem fine. I will check out the solenoid. Thanks for the reply.

[jimbo16720]

Something is turned on and draining it while it sits. Could be anything like fridge, radio, clock, fan. Disconect the battery after charging it, just the negative cable and check it in a couple days with a voltmeter to see if it goes dead. If it doesn't then something is draining it while it's sitting.

[slickest1]

Thanks jimbo, I have checked everything I can think of for drain. I shut off the battery disconnect for 2 days and it started after that. Then I left the disconnect on and it started again the next day and the day after that. The third day it was dead again.

[KIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickest1 I shut off the battery disconnect for 2 days and it started after that. Then I left the disconnect on and it started again the next day and the day after that. The third day it was dead again.

I really can't help with your problem except to tell you that repeatedly starting your engine takes a lot out of a battery. When you do start you should at least let it run long enough to replace the amps used to start the engine. If you don't allow the battery to recharge after starting you can expect it to be dead.

Sorry I can't offer some help in finding where the drain is.

[wa8yxm]

People keep arguing with me claiming "There is no difference between starting batteries and Deep Cycle"

Typically, when you run a starting battery way down, as you likely did when your alternator died... It is not long for this world.. IF it does not fail right away it will very very soon.

True Deep cycles... Well,,, Mine have recovered from more than one "OH SH!!!!!" (By that I mean discharge to below 25 percent)

The shop that replace the alternator... Should have explained this to you. Starting batteries just do not recover well from a truly deep discharge.

(Deep cycle don't like it... but the odds of recovery are higher)

[slickest1]

As I said in my long winded post I did replace the Starting Battery after I replaced the alternator. The battery is one of those big 8d size that have 1100 cranking amps. designed for starting diesel engines. After starting the engine I have left it run on high idle for a few minutes. The only thing I have changed since putting in the new battery is I found the module for the keyless entry and reprogrammed it and it is now working. The new battery has been in the coach for 2 months and when I went to start the coach 2 weekends ago it was down. I used the battery boost to start it and then drove for 2 hrs and shut it off. It had lots of charge after shutting it off but the next morning it was stone dead. I am going to pull the battery and take it in and have it tested at least that will eliminate that as being the problem. Thanks for the replies they are appreciated.

[rpasetto]

Note the posts of KIX and WA8YXM. If you've drawn your starting battery way down a few times it may not recover. It will be worthwhile to fix the problem rather than killing yet another starting battery.

Before you fully disconnect the chassis battery, check the "parasitic" amp draw (after it's fully charged and your charger off). Shut off or disconnect your house batteries; anything left with power has to be getting it from the chassis battery. It could be something simple like a lamp in a closed compartment that's on or something more difficult to find....

A draw of a few amperes might be enough to kill the chassis battery in a few days... or less. The tough part will be isolating the circuit with the draw. For this you'll need to find the fuse box which gets its power from the chassis battery, start removing fuses, one at a time, until the ammeter reading drops... you 'll know that circuit has a draw = to the change in amperes.

One more thing, to measure the "parasitic" draw on your chassis battery you can use a cheap VOM like Harbor Freight sells for less than 10 bucks. make sure it has a DC amp range of at least 10amp. Connect the ammeter in series with your battery. A 10 amp fuse in series will help too; if it blows, you know you're dealing with one heck of a parasitic draw (more than 10amp). You can still run the test by removing all the fuses in the fusebox powered by the chassis batt, then insert them back one at a time.

[Radarman]

Sure sounds like something is draining the battery--who knows what and if you could completely eliminate it. Recommend a battery disconnect switch that mounts directly on the battery post itself. Then after battery is charged, open the switch. That will definitely stop the drain until you are once again ready to start it up.

[slickest1]

rpasetto and radarman, thanks for your input. I have been through everything checking for a light in a compartment etc. The only parasitic drains I can find are the co2 det. and maybe the keyless entry and radio presets. The coach has a solar panel and charger that should take care of that. With both battery disconnects turned off and the cables off the starting battery I still have power coming through the pos lead for the starting battery using a test light. I am usually pretty good at trouble shooting these things but this thing has me baffled. I will probably take it to a mechanic buddy that is familiar with motorhomes.

[targaboat]

With the cable off the battery the cable should be completely dead. That indicates there is communication with the coach system. Turning off the coach system could could possibly help.

I would either get a disconnect or find the leak and fix it. You do that with a meter and start tracing every wire. And as someone has said, checking the amp draw is also useful in trouble shooting. As you already know just running around looking is not very productive unless you are very lucky and if that were the case you would be winning the lottery and pay someone to fix it for you.

[slickest1]

I found the problems. First off the juice coming through the unhooked battery cable was from the solar charger. There is no on off switch for that and I finally found the right fuse. The one I had initially pulled was wrong so had me baffled for a while.

The dying battery was a faulty battery. It was an 8d size starting battery. After reading through a bunch of my manuals I found something interesting. The manual for the trace 2000 inverter says not to use starting batteries in the starting circuit because they wont take the charge from the inverter very well. The plates in the starting batteries are thinner and will warp causing premature failure. I replaced them with 2 deep cycle 12 volts in parallel and it also gives me 200 more cranking amps.