Starting Issue

[dennis45]

Originally Posted by jacwjames

I had a similar problem last year. I would turn the key and nothing, turn the key off and then on again and the coach would start. Finally it wouldn't do anything.

First thing I checked was the chassis batter disconnect in the rear passenger side run bay. I took it off and checked for continuity, turned the knob several times and couldn't get any voltage through the switch. Bolted both leads together and the coach started right up.

Replaced the switch with this

Guest 2102 Series Battery Switch 6-32 Volts 230 Amps

bought two of them knowing the house disconnect was the same age. Cost was $110 for 2 from ebay, came as a kit including some wire and connectors which I kept in case of emergency.

BTW, I seldom use the disconnects but they must go bad just sitting there.

Good point, I forgot about that one.

[palehorse89]

Talking of the engine disconnect switch, I took the Coach for a 25 mile ride today, volt gauge and the scan gauge was saying 11.9-12.0 volts? Power panel said 12.7 volts. When I returned to the shop, I shut it off and cycled the disconnect switch 10-12 times, snapping it open and closed. Went back inside and started the engine, volt meter and scan gauge is at 12.7 idling, voltage went up with rpm's. See if you can check the voltage on both sides of you disconnect switch....

[Dan Osborne]

Originally Posted by barmcd

Katherine came home so I was able to try a couple of things. When you start the coach there's all kinds of whirring and clicking noises you can't hear from inside the coach.

Without the battery boost, the starter solenoid clicks several times and I hear a humming noise from the bottom curb side of the engine. The engine doesn't turn over. It's almost like the starter is locked up and not able to turn on its own. With the battery boost on, there is more clicking, and after a few seconds the starter turns the motor over enough to start it. It seems to run fine, but there is still the "Warning" light on the dash.

Can the starting battery short under load and the coach still start with the house batteries?

One loose connection can change everything. I found mine with a test light that showed the connection as dim.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/92-s...nk-283677.html

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by dennis45

Pretty sure you have a bad connection. Any bad connection such as a cable connection or the contacts inside a solenoid will cause a drop in current when you activate the starter. That's why you hear the humming or clicking noise. The starter is trying to do its thing but not enough current to get it done.

Did you remove the cable off the starter and check it? Test the slave solenoid. This is the small solenoid that is remote mounted from the starter and is activate by the ign switch. It acts like a switch between the battery and the main starter solenoid to carry the heavy current required by the starter. Any one of these connections or devices can produce the noise you refer to.
Or, it could be a bad starter that has failed because it is not getting enough current.

If I recall, your coach has an ISC engine. Most use two 900 to 1000 plus CCA batteries for starting. You said in your post you have only one. Does it look like you may have had two batteries and your PO changed to one?

Dennis

There are no obvious signs that it had two batteries. It has one that takes up most of the space in the battery tray.

I haven't removed any cables yet.

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by jacwjames

I had a similar problem last year. I would turn the key and nothing, turn the key off and then on again and the coach would start. Finally it wouldn't do anything.

First thing I checked was the chassis batter disconnect in the rear passenger side run bay. I took it off and checked for continuity, turned the knob several times and couldn't get any voltage through the switch. Bolted both leads together and the coach started right up.

Replaced the switch with this

Guest 2102 Series Battery Switch 6-32 Volts 230 Amps

bought two of them knowing the house disconnect was the same age. Cost was $110 for 2 from ebay, came as a kit including some wire and connectors which I kept in case of emergency.

BTW, I seldom use the disconnects but they must go bad just sitting there.

Jim, I'll check the battery disconnects to see what happens.

[barmcd]

I plan to take the battery and have it load tested. It's the easiest thing to do so I'll do that first.

Then I'll exercise the disconnect switch and see if it appears to be functional.

My last step will be to disconnect each leg of the wiring from the battery to the starter and clean, tighten and lubricate with dielectric grease.

I don't think the coach came with two batteries, but I can ask the last owner. He has been very helpful answering questions I've asked about the coach.

I did notice something when I started the coach. Is there a relay inside the dash that energizes when you turn the key to the on position? I hear something making a rapid clicking noise and it sounds like its coming from the passenger side of the dash.

[Dan Osborne]

Originally Posted by barmcd

I plan to take the battery and have it load tested. It's the easiest thing to do so I'll do that first.


I did notice something when I started the coach. Is there a relay inside the dash that energizes when you turn the key to the on position? I hear something making a rapid clicking noise and it sounds like its coming from the passenger side of the dash.

The rapid clicking is probably the air dryer which (on my older coach) is right below the passengers feet. Load testing the battery may be a good idea but I doubt that is the issue since the boost is not changing anything.

[RobRoy]

Originally Posted by barmcd

I plan to take the battery and have it load tested. It's the easiest thing to do so I'll do that first.

Then I'll exercise the disconnect switch and see if it appears to be functional.

My last step will be to disconnect each leg of the wiring from the battery to the starter and clean, tighten and lubricate with dielectric grease.

I don't think the coach came with two batteries, but I can ask the last owner. He has been very helpful answering questions I've asked about the coach.

I did notice something when I started the coach. Is there a relay inside the dash that energizes when you turn the key to the on position? I hear something making a rapid clicking noise and it sounds like its coming from the passenger side of the dash.

Assuming that ALL of your batteries have been thoroughly and tested and test good. This video is a simple layout of voltage drop 101 testing and will SHOW you on a DVOM meter where you have a bad or weak connection rather than looking at a connection and guessing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paw80mS_Kxg

I have seen some pretty shabby connections that tested good and some connections that look good and failed miserably.

You can and should do this on both the positive side and the negative sides from the battery terminal post ( not cable) to the starter.

If excessive? Do as shown in the video and work your way back towards the battery respective post from the excessive drop . Voltage Drop testing is very simple ......don’t over think it. What you are doing here is checking the electrical connections under load. ( working) and seeing a specfic value of possible voltage loss ........and not guessing.

You will need they wife to crank the coach while you watch the DVOM meter or will need a DVOMeter with a “ Min – Max “ function that will lock in the highest voltage reading it sees on the DVOM screen

Happy Hunting

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by Dan Osborne

The rapid clicking is probably the air dryer which (on my older coach) is right below the passengers feet. Load testing the battery may be a good idea but I doubt that is the issue since the boost is not changing anything.

I don't think it will either Dan, but it will eliminate a variable and it doesn't cost anything and necessitate crawling under the coach.

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by RobRoy

Assuming that ALL of your batteries have been thoroughly and tested and test good. This video is a simple layout of voltage drop 101 testing and will SHOW you on a DVOM meter where you have a bad or weak connection rather than looking at a connection and guessing.

I have seen some pretty shabby connections that tested good and some connections that look good and failed miserably.

You can and should do this on both the positive side and the negative sides from the battery terminal post ( not cable) to the starter.

If excessive? Do as shown in the video and work your way back towards the battery respective post from the excessive drop . Voltage Drop testing is very simple ......don’t over think it. What you are doing here is checking the electrical connections under load. ( working) and seeing a specfic value of possible voltage loss ........and not guessing.

You will need they wife to crank the coach while you watch the DVOM meter or will need a DVOMeter with a “ Min – Max “ function that will lock in the highest voltage reading it sees on the DVOM screen

Happy Hunting

Thanks for the video tutorial. That will be very helpful.

[distaff]

Dennis,

My 06 Beaver Patriot Thunder is essentially a confused Monaco (S-Series chassis). I always turn the key to "run" and let it run through its start up cycle. I get a series of rapid clicks under the dash, followed by a pause, and a similar series of clicks from a hard to determine other location, and it does it a few times. By now the "Check Engine" and "Warning" lights are off and the heater in the turbo is up to temp, so I can start it.

I have had a few issues with starting - the first time it was dead and from the driver seat I couldn't hear anything after the initial clicks described above. Had a friend who happens to be a Cat mechanic come by and he could hear a relay midship that was clicking, but nothing back at the starter. He jumped the solenoid connection to start it, and we got it over to my house where we could tackle it the next morning (it was in storage). In ten below with a blizzard coming in we found the ignition lead to the solenoid had corroded off. Bit of a pain but all it needed was a new connection (we took the trouble Monaco hadn't to heat shrink the connection to protect it).

The second issue was growling before the starter would turn over. It would only do it when cold, and eventually I had a morning where it didn't respond to the first 4 attempts, then it started. This had been going on for a couple of years (didn't use it that much) and it was badly corroded, put a new starter in this week.

If you are getting decent voltage, your connections at the battery are clean, look at where the wires connect to the starter solenoid. Mine came apart with a gentle tug.

[Vanwill]

Dennis, you should be able to start your engine in any weather when everything is up to snuff. That was my experience with my own 2000 Dynasty 36 with ISC-350 and grid heater. HOWEVER, I always thought that it turned over slower than I would have liked, even though I had a new engine battery (single large 8D like yours), and all cables/connections were either new or inspected/refreshed. As a precaution before our Alaska trip this spring, I was going to pull the starter and rebuild it, including a new solenoid.

However, on the advice of Mike Canter (and others), I purchased a Denso gear-reduction starter. It spins the engine over MUCH faster, and on about 10% less amperage.

REPEAT--you should not NEED it, but the faster spin-over is surely a plus.

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by distaff

Dennis,

My 06 Beaver Patriot Thunder is essentially a confused Monaco (S-Series chassis). I always turn the key to "run" and let it run through its start up cycle. I get a series of rapid clicks under the dash, followed by a pause, and a similar series of clicks from a hard to determine other location, and it does it a few times. By now the "Check Engine" and "Warning" lights are off and the heater in the turbo is up to temp, so I can start it.

I have had a few issues with starting - the first time it was dead and from the driver seat I couldn't hear anything after the initial clicks described above. Had a friend who happens to be a Cat mechanic come by and he could hear a relay midship that was clicking, but nothing back at the starter. He jumped the solenoid connection to start it, and we got it over to my house where we could tackle it the next morning (it was in storage). In ten below with a blizzard coming in we found the ignition lead to the solenoid had corroded off. Bit of a pain but all it needed was a new connection (we took the trouble Monaco hadn't to heat shrink the connection to protect it).

The second issue was growling before the starter would turn over. It would only do it when cold, and eventually I had a morning where it didn't respond to the first 4 attempts, then it started. This had been going on for a couple of years (didn't use it that much) and it was badly corroded, put a new starter in this week.

If you are getting decent voltage, your connections at the battery are clean, look at where the wires connect to the starter solenoid. Mine came apart with a gentle tug.

Thanks for the input. I think I have a pretty good handle on where to check and inspect, clean. I'm pretty sure I have a continuity issue in the wiring, solenoid or switch somewhere. I probably won't be able to tackle it until later in the week as we have some wet weather moving in.

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Dennis, you should be able to start your engine in any weather when everything is up to snuff. That was my experience with my own 2000 Dynasty 36 with ISC-350 and grid heater. HOWEVER, I always thought that it turned over slower than I would have liked, even though I had a new engine battery (single large 8D like yours), and all cables/connections were either new or inspected/refreshed. As a precaution before our Alaska trip this spring, I was going to pull the starter and rebuild it, including a new solenoid.

However, on the advice of Mike Canter (and others), I purchased a Denso gear-reduction starter. It spins the engine over MUCH faster, and on about 10% less amperage.

REPEAT--you should not NEED it, but the faster spin-over is surely a plus.

Van, I thought the engine turned over pretty slowly before I had this issue and the Denso sounds like a good upgrade. I have the phone number of the place in Indianapolis and will get one on order as soon as I get this issue figured out.

There's so much to do and so little time to do it!