steering box adjustment

[crah]

Does anyone know if the gear box for the coach in my signature has an adjustment screw? I have about an inch of slop in the steering. Shop said all the bushings,etc looked fine. Doing some searching and not funding much luck.

[Mike Canter]

They all have an adjustment screw held locked down my a nut. So if you have the wheels straight ahead and have the DW rock the steering wheel back and forth just in the slack area from one end of the slack to the other end of the slack does the arm coming out of the steering box move? If so it is not the steering box. If iy doesn't move then it is the steering box. If the arm does move now follow the connections and joints to see where the worn component is. You will be able to see and hear it.

If you have to adjust the steering box then you have to be real careful you do not over tighten it and have it get the steering box in a bind or not let the front wheels straighten back up after going through a turn. Carefully mark the center adjustment screw with paint and have a matching mark on the box so you can always go back to where it was. Make sure you count the turns anytime you turn it. So with the front wheels straight ahead put an allan head socket into the adjuster screw with a box end wrench around lock nut. Use only a box end wrench so you do not slip off the nut, Now while holding the center adjustment screw still loosen the locknut and back it up away from the box while holding the adjustment screw still . Now screw the adjustment screw clockwise and it should stop when it hits the gear shaft inside the box. Make sure you count how many turns. When it stops then back it off a half turn and lock it down. Now try the wheel and see if the slack is gone. The other check is if you have leveling jacks the lift the front wheels off the ground and steer from one extreme to the other and make sure there are no tight spots.

[nodine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crah Does anyone know if the gear box for the coach in my signature has an adjustment screw? I have about an inch of slop in the steering. Shop said all the bushings,etc looked fine. Doing some searching and not funding much luck.

Make sure before you do any adjustments that you actually have play in the steering box. If you are new to Class A motorhomes you may be fooled by the steering. When I first started driving a class A motorhome I thought the steering had slop in it but it was only me. Over-steering on a Class A motorhome is the most common mistake new drivers make. The Class A does not respond like a vehicle with the steering wheels in front of you. It takes some time for the steering to respond to movement of the steering wheel. I find it best to look out ahead and steer for the curve ahead of time but slowly. Once I learned how the motorhome responded I was amazed at how little movement of the steering wheel could affect the steering. If you do not have slop and over-steer you set up a mad chase of over compensation moving the steering wheel left and then right and then so on.

Bob

[ottffss]

Pretty much what nodine said.

The adjustment screw Mike talks about is really a "pre-load" adjustment for the gear set in the box, not a slop remover. The pre-load setting tends be a very precise setting, not a random tighten-till-it-snugs-back-off type setting. Mike's procedure is exactly how I would/did adjust the box on my 57 Chevy but I wouldn't even think of that process on a newer box, let alone one as expensive and heavily loaded as a moho box. If the box is indeed sloppy there are internal gear issues and a proper pre-load adjustment is called for. That usually involves removing the steering link and setting the pre-load adjustment nut via a drag/load measurement or a gear interference measurement.

My take is you situation is more in what nodine said. Only an inch? Sounds like it's pretty tight to me, these aren't Ferrari's.

[ahicks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottffss Only an inch? Sounds like it's pretty tight to me, these aren't Ferrari's.

Typical attitude that I try to avoid when shopping for service work I'm not able to do on my own.

If somebody marks the starting position in a manner that will allow them to return to it accurately, from that point on nothing ventured is nothing gained. More power to you for wanting it "right", not just "serviceable".

[Mike Canter]

All steering boxes from way back when including your 57 Chebbie and the motorhomes are adjusted by changing the gear preload via that adjustment screw. Nothing has changed. Notice how in my post I said to put the DW behind the wheel and let her move it back and forth through just the slack and see if the steering arm is moving and if it is then it is NOT slack in the steering box and maybe slack at a end joint somewhere. If that steering arm out of the steering box movies right away with any movement of the steering wheel then DO NOT adjust the box.

[ottffss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahicks Typical attitude that I try to avoid when shopping for service work I'm not able to do on my own.

Except when trying to create a problem when in fact there is NO problem. This set up sounds exactly "right" and to mess with it is to simply create a solution to a completely non-existent problem. There is a clear difference between "serviceable" and "right." This isn't even close to merely "serviceable." BTW "right" is doing accurate measurements, "serviceable" is slap happy guessing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahicks If somebody marks the starting position in a manner that will allow them to return to it accurately, from that point on nothing ventured is nothing gained. More power to you for wanting it "right", not just "serviceable".

Except for possibly damaging the gear set due to a grossly improper pre-load while messing with it. Galling the gear set is the last thing you really want to do. One test turn with the wrong pre-load is all you need. Then you really have created a major problem by venturing into areas one does not have the experience to be. Again, "right" is doing accurate measurements, "serviceable" is venturing into slap happy guessing.

I prefer "right" every time and only recommend such unless I specifically call out otherwise.

[donandmax]

I have performed this adjustment on several vehicles in the past. It didnt work for any of them. Its always something else causing this. I leave this adjustment alone and look elsewhere

[crah]

Thanks for all suggestions and opinions. My post wan't meant to create any aruguments. However I do have to comment that if I left everything alone I would have been foolish. I do know when something is not driving right to some degree. After racking on over 8000 miles I feel most handling complaints are warranted and there are room for improvement. Today I just finished with my 3rd alignment in the last 6 months. The first was done by the dealer. Back then I didn't know as much and as others have suggested "look further down the road" and get used to how these things handle, I gave it some time. I just had the alignment done last week and printed out the specs from my manual and asked for maximum toe in and castor settings. After I got it back, it seemed nothing really changed except I did notice that it pulled slightly to the left. (this was at a heavy duty alignment shop) recommended by a monaco service center. I talked to the owner of the shop and really went over what my issues were and he said he would double check it. Today I had the alignment done again and whatever he did, it seems to track much better. He did say my safe t plus was not set correctly and causing part of the issue. Either though this made improvements, I still have a long ways to go to get the coach to handle better. One of the issues as I've posted is the play in the steering wheel. Either though it is only 1 inch, I feel if that wasn't there "it could possibly make handling better" especially with the delayed response to steering output on the freeway. I may be way off on this. Is one inch of play really considered nomal? I can drive this coach like this for many years to come, but if I can make it better I will. I'm sure many are driving out there with much more slop than what I have. Back in the days, I had an old ford pickup that had at leas 3-4 inches of play. That was outright scary on the highway. You really had to learn how to drive that truck. Thanks all for the suggestions on the gear box-the pros and the cons.

My next goal is to make the coach handle better in the wind and passing vehicles. I'd like to minimize the effects if possible. I'll start another thread on that.

[Mike Canter]

Wouldn't call any of that an arguement. Heavy discussion maybe.

The first thing I would check on your RR8S chassis is the shocks. They are the biggest factor in how a MH handles in the wind or driving down the road. Monaco installed Monroe shocks which are really bad choice of shocks and normally wear out by 19K miles. These shocks are easily identified by color. The Monroe shocks are yellow on both the top steel dust cover and the bottom cylinder. The good Bilsteins are also yellow on the bottom but a have a BLUE rubber dust cover on the top. If you have the yellow on yellow Monroe shocks then buy new Bilsteins or Koni FSD shocks before you do anything else. If they are Koni or Bilsteins already on the MH then it is not a problem with the shocks but something else.

[crah]

The shocks are the red koni adjustables installed by previous owner.

[ottffss]

Ditto to Mike's post... On all points...

The real issue seems it's the overall "handling" of the rig and not just steering slop. That changes the thread considerably by opening up many more options for cause and effect. Apparently your saf-t-plus was part of the handling factor as was trying to "game" the alignment. Mike also points to shocks.

I'll open it up further to suggest there are numerous irv2 threads about items/issues/ways to improve the handling of these rigs including Howard type steering control system among many others. Search these forums and see what you find regarding these and the numerous other handling fixes and their cause and effect.

[crah]

Perhaps I should have been more clear on the issues. Overall I believe my coach has room for improvement in handling. The steering slop either though small doesn't seem right and i feel it contributes the extra effort to steer. I've done quite a bit of searching and I actually ran into a post discussing a member trying a bunch of things but at the end of day the gear box adjustment solved his issues. I thought source engineering was working on sway bars for my chassis currently as well. I do know that there is probably room for improvement in overall handling. Thanks for all input thus far.

[nodine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crah Perhaps I should have been more clear on the issues. Overall I believe my coach has room for improvement in handling. The steering slop either though small doesn't seem right and i feel it contributes the extra effort to steer. I've done quite a bit of searching and I actually ran into a post discussing a member trying a bunch of things but at the end of day the gear box adjustment solved his issues. I thought source engineering was working on sway bars for my chassis currently as well. I do know that there is probably room for improvement in overall handling. Thanks for all input thus far.

crah,

I have been trying things to improve the handling of our 2006 Diplomat since we purchased it 4 years ago. The list goes like this:

ride height adjustment
alignment
8 Koni FSD shocks
pack front wheel bearings and torque to correct spec
new Michelin tires
Blue Ox TruCenter
Roadmaster sway bars front and back

Everything in the list above made an improvement. Although the Koni FSD shocks helped a lot with the wind, the one that made the biggest improvement was the last one, Roadmaster sway bars. Our coach now drives like a dream and I can drive it for 8 hours without any fatigue. When we first got the coach, two hours of driving would wear me down. Do yourself a favor and get the Roadmaster sway bars. I am in no way associated with Roadmaster and could not get any recommendation on these sway and only found one person who had tried them. At that time I don't think Roadmaster had sold very many for the RR8R. That person was a beta test candidate for Source Engineering so there could be a bias in their recommendation. I was so tired of getting pushed around by the wind that I decided to take a gamble and have them installed. I am very glad that I did.

You see, the wind is what causes you to have to make so many corrections with the steering. When the back of the coach gets pushed sideways at a different force vector than the front, the steering is affected. Notice when that 18 wheeler starts to overtake you. You can feel the pull in the steering as it closes in. You have to move the steering to counteract the movement of the rear of the coach. Your rear axle acts as a fulcrum pivot point and that heavy engine hanging out over the back is a counter weight. There is a lot more frame extending up front to where the front axle and steering wheels are. For example, if you had 8 feet behind the rear axle and 32 feet in front of the rear axle, a 1/4 inch movement in the rear section would try to move the front of the coach 2 inches. You can read about my Roadmaster sway bar project and the experience of others in the thread below.

Report on Roadmaster sway bars on RR8R chassis

PS I forgot to mention the bonus with the sway bars. Believe it or not, the ride is significantly improved!

Bob