Steering Box Play- Sheppard M100 SHIM or Swap for a TRW ?

[RockyMtnRide]

I too have the Shepard box and need to swap to the TRW. I just finished both a front and rear watts link install, and will be doing the cross bars tomorrow. With the great instructions from Mike Hughes I was able to do it myself. With the gear box I'm not sure. Does anyone have a recommended shop close to Denver? I don't want a similar situation that bouncealot just went through. I know both Josams in Florida and Hendersons in Oregon have done a few. Any others out there? I'm flexible and could drive a ways if need be. In closing I want to thank Van Williams, Craig French, Mike Hughes, and the rest of the pioneers that took the time and effort to help all of us taming our coaches
Thanks
Doug

[nodine]

Originally Posted by RockyMtnRide

I too have the Shepard box and need to swap to the TRW. I just finished both a front and rear watts link install, and will be doing the cross bars tomorrow. With the great instructions from Mike Hughes I was able to do it myself. With the gear box I'm not sure. Does anyone have a recommended shop close to Denver? I don't want a similar situation that bouncealot just went through. I know both Josams in Florida and Hendersons in Oregon have done a few. Any others out there? I'm flexible and could drive a ways if need be. In closing I want to thank Van Williams, Craig French, Mike Hughes, and the rest of the pioneers that took the time and effort to help all of us taming our coaches
Thanks
Doug

Doug,

We have a 2006 Diplomat and did the Shepard to TRW swap by myself. If you were able to install the front and rear Watts links you should be able to do the swap. The most difficult parts of the task are getting the old bolts loose and freeing up the threads on the drag link end that connects to the Pittman arm. I did require my wife to pump the handle on the floor jack as I held the TRW on the jack and then inserted one bolt. After one bolt is in place you can swing the TRW up and insert the remaining bolts. The hard lesson I learned, and Craig will not let me forget, is don't move the TRW off the alignment mark to connect the drag link to the Pittman arm. You must have the wheels pointing straight ahead with the marks aligned. If the drag link will not connect in any spline position of the Pittman arm then you must adjust the drag link end.

Our Diplomat has both front and rear Watts links, the cross bars and the TRW. You will be amazed at how well the coach will handle and find yourself driving to fast. The wind will be child's play after all those mods.

Bob

[bouncealot]

Picked up the coach yesterday and drove it home. The steering is much different. I only had a 20 mile ride to get home but overall I think the steering is much more stable. My wife commented that she noticed I occasionally only had one hand on the wheel (that almost never happened before).

It will take some time to get used to the new feel. We are leaving next week on a 5 to 8 thousand mile trip for the next 6 months. So I will have plenty of time to evaluate the new steering.

It looks like the shop got the installation correct. The sector shaft and Nub are aligned with the wheels straight. (Craig - thanks for the picture. ) Lock to lock steering seems to be what it was before -- although the action of the TRW is much smoother, quieter, and easier that the sheppard. The tires, drag link and pitman arm do not hit any other components. The steering wheel is almost centered, and much closer to center than it was from Monaco.

I think I have a new record for labor charges for the swap -- 23 hours!!!!!!
At $127 / per hour!!!!!

Fortunately, I was prepared to argue. I had copies of the procedures with my notes on them and gently pointed out to the service manager where they had gone wrong and that a simple phone call to the customer (me) would have saved half of the time they wasted.

In the end we settled on 13 hours labor, a free chassis lube and he reduced the labor rate to 100$ / hour.

Much more than the $800 I was expecting to pay. I could have purchased a nice set of big tools, done the job myself and saved money. I originally decided I would farm the job out because I was short on time, but it turns out they had the coach for 10 days where I could have done the tool shopping and installed it myself in 3 to 4 days.

I hope this is useful information to anyone trying to choose the DIY route.

Thanks to everyone who did the swap before and posted their experience. All this information was priceless. I will post again about the steering and handling experience in the next week or so , our first long stop is to wait for the eclipse in TN. This is About 700 miles from our NJ home.

[RockyMtnRide]

Originally Posted by nodine

Doug,

We have a 2006 Diplomat and did the Shepard to TRW swap by myself. If you were able to install the front and rear Watts links you should be able to do the swap. The most difficult parts of the task are getting the old bolts loose and freeing up the threads on the drag link end that connects to the Pittman arm. I did require my wife to pump the handle on the floor jack as I held the TRW on the jack and then inserted one bolt. After one bolt is in place you can swing the TRW up and insert the remaining bolts. The hard lesson I learned, and Craig will not let me forget, is don't move the TRW off the alignment mark to connect the drag link to the Pittman arm. You must have the wheels pointing straight ahead with the marks aligned. If the drag link will not connect in any spline position of the Pittman arm then you must adjust the drag link end.

Our Diplomat has both front and rear Watts links, the cross bars and the TRW. You will be amazed at how well the coach will handle and find yourself driving to fast. The wind will be child's play after all those mods.

Bob

Bob
After reading about bouncealot's final bill and your encouragement I've changed my mind and will tackle the project myself. I don't have a floor jack, but do have a motorcycle jack I can use to help handle the boxes. It's really amazing how difficult it is to find a trustworthy and knowledgeable shop. I have yet to be satisfied with any work I haven't done myself.
By the way I should have included your name with the all stars. I know your autocad skills and initial measurements got the whole ball rolling. Because we have the same year and model coach can I lean on you for advise once I dive in?
Thanks
Doug

[Traps90]

It seems like everyone who has this done, are really happy with it. I was considering getting the swap done, but some of you are really making me nervous with your labour cost.
Are there any good reliable shops in the Pacific North West that are reasonable and reliable.

[Alan Wilson]

Originally Posted by Traps90

It seems like everyone who has this done, are really happy with it. I was considering getting the swap done, but some of you are really making me nervous with your labour cost.
Are there any good reliable shops in the Pacific North West that are reasonable and reliable.

Brazel's RV Performance in Centralia WA has never done me wrong. I've never used them for this but from what I've seen in their shop this should be easy.

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by Traps90

It seems like everyone who has this done, are really happy with it. I was considering getting the swap done, but some of you are really making me nervous with your labour cost.
Are there any good reliable shops in the Pacific North West that are reasonable and reliable.

Check your Sheppard model number. The larger coaches, such as yours, usually have the Sheppard M110 not the M100. The M110 is not swappable at this time. It could be done, but there is A LOT more involved.

I have a friend with a 2011 Camelot 43' that has the TRW TAS85 so there is even a chance that SOME of you larger coach owners have the TRW installed from the factory :-). It is hit or miss....Snowflake time

Safe Travels,

Craig

[deSanford]

Hi Traps90 As you know I did the swap long ago with all the other mods. Now the this coach is.as good as I could ever want. Linda and I are in Florida, and heading to Key West in the morning. A coach with a Shepherd is a pain in the _ _ _ (shoulders) to drive.

[Traps90]

Originally Posted by CrazyKnight

Check your Sheppard model number. The larger coaches, such as yours, usually have the Sheppard M110 not the M100. The M110 is not swappable at this time. It could be done, but there is A LOT more involved.

I have a friend with a 2011 Camelot 43' that has the TRW TAS85 so there is even a chance that SOME of you larger coach owners have the TRW installed from the factory :-). It is hit or miss....Snowflake time

Safe Travels,

Craig

Thanks for the info Craig, while mine does have some play it was never as bad as some of you we're complaining about. That said I recently drove a 2007 Newmar tag axle coach to the shop for a friend, and couldn't believe how tight his steering was.

So it got me to thinking about this. I know Henderson's claim they can shim and tighten up the steering box on the Sheppard, I'm thinking that if I was going to spend some money on it, might as well go for the swap. May have to give this all
some more thought.

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by Traps90

Thanks for the info Craig, while mine does have some play it was never as bad as some of you we're complaining about. That said I recently drove a 2007 Newmar tag axle coach to the shop for a friend, and couldn't believe how tight his steering was.

So it got me to thinking about this. I know Henderson's claim they can shim and tighten up the steering box on the Sheppard, I'm thinking that if I was going to spend some money on it, might as well go for the swap. May have to give this all
some more thought.

After a trip to Weller HQ and with Tom and Brent allowing Van and myself to hold all the parts from BOTH steering gears in our hands and ask a TON of questions about the inner workings and how the steering gears are rebuilt and operate shimming a Sheppard would not be my choice. Weller told me they can make a Sheppard "tighter" but due to the design it can never be a TRW. If you understand what they shim, and I finally do, they can not even get close removing the gear lash from a Sheppard like you can do with a simple adjustment to a TRW.

I am not trying to discourage anyone from trying it I am just telling you facts.
I have seen some "tighter" Shepherds but like you said if you steer a TRW equipped coach you can tell the difference. I, long ago, offered my coach to other owners to drive just to see the difference.

SWAP ON (if you want too)

Craig

[nodine]

Originally Posted by RockyMtnRide

Bob
After reading about bouncealot's final bill and your encouragement I've changed my mind and will tackle the project myself. I don't have a floor jack, but do have a motorcycle jack I can use to help handle the boxes. It's really amazing how difficult it is to find a trustworthy and knowledgeable shop. I have yet to be satisfied with any work I haven't done myself.
By the way I should have included your name with the all stars. I know your autocad skills and initial measurements got the whole ball rolling. Because we have the same year and model coach can I lean on you for advise once I dive in?
Thanks
Doug

Doug,

Its been a couple of years since I did the swap but will help you out as much as my memory will support. I do remember you need to tie a plastic jug or some other container to the hydraulic lines as they seem to drip even with the reservoir drained. It was necessary to purchase longer Grade 8 bolts and I found them at Tractor Supply. All my life I have been burdened with the concept that I can do things by myself but often that concept is flawed. I am almost finished building an RV garage and had this thought out plan of how I would install the ceiling by myself. Luckily my son-n-law helped me with the ceiling and during the process I realized it would have been next to impossible by myself. I mention this as you might find it beneficial to find a friend willing to help you with the TRW swap. If you weren't so far away I would help.

Our coach came from Monaco with gear oil for the hydraulic fluid and we stayed with that. Since doing the swap it has come to my attention that Weller or TRW, can't remember which, recommends using transmission fluid. Maybe Craig needs to weight in here. At any rate, we are still using the gear oil but I may change that.

Bob

[HatzicGuy]

I had Hendersons do the swap for me and have been very happy with the results and I drove down there from Vancouver B.C. as I couldn't find a shop here willing to do it.
They also stock all the parts with some mark up so I would call them to get a quote?
Happy Swapper with 12,000 miles on the swap

[palmerlee]

Are there any videos available about the swap of sheppard to TRW and all that goes with it? How can you tell if it's a sheppard? By the model #s? I'm a new owner of a used 2004 Monaco LaPalma and it does wander.

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by palmerlee

Are there any videos available about the swap of sheppard to TRW and all that goes with it? How can you tell if it's a sheppard? By the model #s? I'm a new owner of a used 2004 Monaco LaPalma and it does wander.

Welcome. See post #1344 and #1345 for pictures of the 2 steering gears. There are no videos that I am aware of, a good idea next time I "help" swap one.
Owners have posted some very good "white paper" (detailed instructions) on how to perform the swap.

Check to see what model Sheppard you have, if you have one, Sheppard M80's are not readily swappable. It can be done. Sheppard M100 to the TRW TAS65 is the most common steering gear swap.

You can check for steering gear play. Procedure explained in the first few pages of this growing thread.

What chassis do you have ?

SWAP ON (if you want too)

Craig