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Old 07-19-2015, 06:13 AM   #43
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Why not just run tires at or close to max pressure? That would seem to account for a loaded coach assuming it is not overloaded.

Isn't it true that running tires st max pressure will wear the tread out in the center of the tire as opposed to under inflated tires wearing out on the edges. Since MH Tires rarely need to be replaced due to tread loss, it seems like operating at max pressure wouldn't be a bad idea.

Thoughts?
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:20 AM   #44
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Rough ride, and due to smaller contact patch then less traction and more likely to go into a skid in the rain or emergency maneuvers on dry road.
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:21 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadrun View Post
Why not just run tires at or close to max pressure? That would seem to account for a loaded coach assuming it is not overloaded.

Isn't it true that running tires st max pressure will wear the tread out in the center of the tire as opposed to under inflated tires wearing out on the edges. Since MH Tires rarely need to be replaced due to tread loss, it seems like operating at max pressure wouldn't be a bad idea.

Thoughts?

I think that your comment about tire wear only applies to bias ply tires, which are no longer common, having been replaced by radials. In the radial tires, there is a belt under the tread which keeps the tread flat over a wide range of pressures. Max pressure will reduce the contact patch and could affect the handling.

Dick L. '04 HR Imperial
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:58 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Cooperhawk View Post
Ten years ago I had a dual Michelin blow out and take its mate with it. They were 7 years old and had been stored indoors when not in use. I replaced with Goodyears and a TST TPMS. Now I replace tires after six years.

No more problems.

It was completely controllable and I just let it slow down and drove it onto the shoulder. Found a mobile tire repair service that came out and replaced the tires right there in the ditch.

That's very unusual except for the situation when one tire in a dual position develops a slow leak. It looses air and the companion tire is forced to carry ever increasing level of load till effectively one tire is forced to carry 100% of the load.
At that point the tire that was loosing air may de-seat and trash itself which leads the driver to think "blowout" in some situations the tire with 100% overload also fails.
This is one of the times when a TPMS might have provided sufficient warning to stop and fix the air leak with the result being no failure on two tires.
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Old 07-19-2015, 07:37 AM   #47
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Rob
Perhaps a different story (other than mine previously posted here) will help show the real problem is the nut behind the wheel. We camp at the same mountain top park each August and meet several of the same folks each year. One has a blowout on his 40' 5th wheel about every other year. He has not one but two electric refrigerators he sets outside (besides his Norcold inside) He likes to cook and I have seen his complete set of huge iron skillets. In short, he is overloaded. After hearing of his first blowout, I asked him if he had had his rig weighed and he said..."No. But I know what it weighs" Pretty hard to argue with that kind of logic. So after the next blowout, he decided that going to Michelin tires would be the trick. I asked again if he had weighed his rig and he said "NO". I don't ask or comment anymore. I already mentioned my distrust of Michelin tires, but in this case no tire would be safe. Don't ask how folks can be so ignorant. Long ago I learned the human mind is capable of rationalizing just about anything. Including me. Maybe somebody could explain how I am wrong, and that we don't need to know what our RVs weigh in order to determine the psi for our tires? Please don't bother to tell me the manufacturer knows what your RV weighs! Get your rig weighed when its loaded to about the max with full tanks, etc. Go to a rally that sponsors four corner weighing if you've never had that done. Its near impossible to get a decent four corner weighing done at a weigh station due to obstructions and often the scale portion is raised making the weight shift to the low (off scale side) and skewing the results. This might help a search:
Scales for four corner weighing
Be safe! You are responsible--period. Should you ever find yourself in a courtroom being sued or worse (Heaven forbid) you will be alone (other than your $$$ attorney) and no tire manufacturer, dealer, RV manufacturer (many are now bankrupt anyway and so off the hook) or anyone else will be facing the music but YOU. If we take into consideration the length of time most Class A RVers will be active before having to sell due to age, health, etc. just how much money savings are we talking about when we change out tires after 5-6 yrs versus longer? What is the cost to have 6 or 8 tires removed from their wheels and inspected annually? If you buy the 'best' but don't follow Michelin's warranty by not having inside of tires inspected, aren't you setting yourself up as the scapegoat should something awful happen? Do you not think Michelin knew they were excusing themselves by requiring tires be dismounted and dealer inspected annually? As the owner of a hundred thousand dollar, and sometimes more than a few hundred thousand dollar RV, imagine trying to convince the jury you were just trying to save money because you aren't rich. Food for thought.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:51 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flynnwalter View Post
Rob
Perhaps a different story (other than mine previously posted here) will help show the real problem is the nut behind the wheel. We camp at the same mountain top park each August and meet several of the same folks each year. One has a blowout on his 40' 5th wheel about every other year. He has not one but two electric refrigerators he sets outside (besides his Norcold inside) He likes to cook and I have seen his complete set of huge iron skillets. In short, he is overloaded. After hearing of his first blowout, I asked him if he had had his rig weighed and he said..."No. But I know what it weighs" Pretty hard to argue with that kind of logic. So after the next blowout, he decided that going to Michelin tires would be the trick. I asked again if he had weighed his rig and he said "NO". I don't ask or comment anymore. I already mentioned my distrust of Michelin tires, but in this case no tire would be safe. Don't ask how folks can be so ignorant. Long ago I learned the human mind is capable of rationalizing just about anything. Including me. Maybe somebody could explain how I am wrong, and that we don't need to know what our RVs weigh in order to determine the psi for our tires? Please don't bother to tell me the manufacturer knows what your RV weighs! Get your rig weighed when its loaded to about the max with full tanks, etc. Go to a rally that sponsors four corner weighing if you've never had that done. Its near impossible to get a decent four corner weighing done at a weigh station due to obstructions and often the scale portion is raised making the weight shift to the low (off scale side) and skewing the results. This might help a search:
Scales for four corner weighing
Be safe! You are responsible--period. Should you ever find yourself in a courtroom being sued or worse (Heaven forbid) you will be alone (other than your $$$ attorney) and no tire manufacturer, dealer, RV manufacturer (many are now bankrupt anyway and so off the hook) or anyone else will be facing the music but YOU. If we take into consideration the length of time most Class A RVers will be active before having to sell due to age, health, etc. just how much money savings are we talking about when we change out tires after 5-6 yrs versus longer? What is the cost to have 6 or 8 tires removed from their wheels and inspected annually? If you buy the 'best' but don't follow Michelin's warranty by not having inside of tires inspected, aren't you setting yourself up as the scapegoat should something awful happen? Do you not think Michelin knew they were excusing themselves by requiring tires be dismounted and dealer inspected annually? As the owner of a hundred thousand dollar, and sometimes more than a few hundred thousand dollar RV, imagine trying to convince the jury you were just trying to save money because you aren't rich. Food for thought.
I think that sums it up very well.
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Old 07-20-2015, 09:25 AM   #49
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Tst tpms

TPMS should alert to temp increase prior to failing in a zipper flat or bubble in a side wall. These situations typically cause a increased heat in the tire prior to failing.
Mike Benson
TST


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Canter View Post
Dick a TPMS will not no anything to warn you of a zipper flat which is the most sudden and dangerous type of flat. Normally the only warning you will see is a bulge in the sidewall. I always check the outside of the tires when I stop and check the inside white a flashlight when I get a chance.

Some that will help all is this
How To Handle An Rv Tire Blowout | Michelin RV Tires
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Old 07-20-2015, 09:33 AM   #50
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Hi WebRVing,
Please call me when you start to look for a TPMS. My name is Mike Benson with TST and I am available until midnight 7 days a week at 770-889-9102
Thanks,
Mike Benson
TST
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:49 AM   #51
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My Story,,,,,,,,, purchased new a 2005 Keystone Raptor, got a blow out second year we owned it, left rear tire came apart. (tri axle trailer) It didn't do any damage. I should add I always check my tires, just before I leave and I did that day. 35 miles later bang.

I thought about it and bought a TPS system.

Next trip, about 200 miles in to the trip left rear blowout! TPS alarmed within a few seconds of the event. Tire destroyed, $2,500 damage to the trailer mostly body work. I noticed that the TPS sensor was still there, the valve was split at the base and hanging on by 1/4" of rubber. with the sensor still attached. At the time I assumed the valve was damaged by the event. Rubber was everywhere. A few months later I got a letter from the TPS company, stating always use steel valve stems with the TPS. The weight of the TPS sensor was too much for rubber valve stems.

Bought and installed steel valve stems.

Had 3 more blowouts on that trailer in the 10 years we owned it. Always rear tires. Upgraded to the next load range tire, which increased the margin of extra load capacity, and the higher rated tires increased the pressure from 60 to 80 psi. Didn't seem to make a difference. TPS never helped me avoid a blowout. I did have one occasion when the TPS save me when I got and alert and found a soft tire, and a nail in it.

My opinion.......To get in my driveway, and move around in my driveway I had to make pretty hard turns on concrete. The rear tires distorted, and left heavy black marks when making these turns. This also occurred a number of times getting in and out of fuel stops, and some tight campgrounds. The rear tires could not survive that beating. Tri axle is not a great solution to carrying a RV around.

I also own a 30' goose neck tandem axle trailer. I use it 5-6 times more than our RV. Made the same turns, day after day. It has never had a tire failure. To me this supports the above opinion.

TPS is not the cure for tire blowouts. It helps, but it will not alert you and signal pending failure reliably. In one case for me, it caused the failure.

I should mention, in an attempt to prevent the above, we never had tires older than 3 years on the RV, yep all 6 replaced every year. I can not state whether that helped, I was afraid to try and go longer.

L.
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Old 07-20-2015, 01:34 PM   #52
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There is a typo in the above, we replaced the tires every 3 years, not every year.

L.
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Old 07-20-2015, 01:47 PM   #53
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I had a blowout on my toad before buying my TPMS. What happen was the right front blew and I didn't know or feel it. Then the left front went because it was being dragged and by this time I see smoke in the rear view mirrors. So I replaced the front tires and added a TPMS system. After a few miles on the trip the tires were getting hot. Much hotter than the rear tires. So I came down to a crawl and limped back home. Two problems were noted. Bad front ball joints and my Diesel exhaust was pointing directly at my left front tire. Replaced the ball joints and changed the exhaust to point down and no problems since.

Might not hold true for everybody but my pressure monitoring system paid for itself in the first 1000 miles of use. (Front tires were close to 400)
Embarrassing but I thought I would tell.
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Old 07-21-2015, 10:38 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbenson1234 View Post
TPMS should alert to temp increase prior to failing in a zipper flat or bubble in a side wall. These situations typically cause a increased heat in the tire prior to failing.
Mike Benson
TST

Yes....BUT

The temperature increase comes after and because of the loss of air pressure. The excess heat is generated as the tire is being damaged from low air pressure.

External sensors run cooler than the internal sensors so depending on temperature for your primary warning will almost guarrantee structural damage to the tire before you get a warning.


Now a "Bubble" in the sidewall can occur but normally this is due to either a manufacturing fault which most likely will show up in the initial few hundred miles. or what looks like a bubble could be broken body cords due to impact. I doubt that either of these situations will result in a TPM warning as there may have been no air loss so no pressure warning and without significant deflection there will not be any significant heat generated.
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Old 07-21-2015, 10:52 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd in S.C. View Post
My Story,,,,,,,,, purchased new a 2005 Keystone Raptor, got a blow out second year we owned it, left rear tire came apart. (tri axle trailer) It didn't do any damage. I should add I always check my tires, just before I leave and I did that day. 35 miles later bang.

I thought about it and bought a TPS system.

Next trip, about 200 miles in to the trip left rear blowout! TPS alarmed within a few seconds of the event. Tire destroyed, $2,500 damage to the trailer mostly body work. I noticed that the TPS sensor was still there, the valve was split at the base and hanging on by 1/4" of rubber. with the sensor still attached. At the time I assumed the valve was damaged by the event. Rubber was everywhere. A few months later I got a letter from the TPS company, stating always use steel valve stems with the TPS. The weight of the TPS sensor was too much for rubber valve stems.

Bought and installed steel valve stems.

Had 3 more blowouts on that trailer in the 10 years we owned it. Always rear tires. Upgraded to the next load range tire, which increased the margin of extra load capacity, and the higher rated tires increased the pressure from 60 to 80 psi. Didn't seem to make a difference. TPS never helped me avoid a blowout. I did have one occasion when the TPS save me when I got and alert and found a soft tire, and a nail in it.

My opinion.......To get in my driveway, and move around in my driveway I had to make pretty hard turns on concrete. The rear tires distorted, and left heavy black marks when making these turns. This also occurred a number of times getting in and out of fuel stops, and some tight campgrounds. The rear tires could not survive that beating. Tri axle is not a great solution to carrying a RV around.

I also own a 30' goose neck tandem axle trailer. I use it 5-6 times more than our RV. Made the same turns, day after day. It has never had a tire failure. To me this supports the above opinion.

TPS is not the cure for tire blowouts. It helps, but it will not alert you and signal pending failure reliably. In one case for me, it caused the failure.

I should mention, in an attempt to prevent the above, we never had tires older than 3 years on the RV, yep all 6 replaced every year. I can not state whether that helped, I was afraid to try and go longer.

L.

Your post is an excellent example of the potential for confusion when the words carry different meanings for different people. This could be a classic "Failure to communicate"

If your failures were sidewall flex failures or what some call a sidewall blow out for short, then your TPMS should have provided advance warning of air loss. but is sounds more like there was no air loss until the belts separated which punctured the body and allowed a RAL or Rapid Air Loss.

I have a thread here on iRV2 on "What is a Blowout" you might find informative and help you understand the importance of the use of accurate communication if we want others to fully understand your position.

Your reference to having continued failures and the high side deflection of multi axle trailer application leads me to believe that "Interply Shear" was the root cause that lead to a Tread and Belt Separation.
(Google "Tire Interply Shear" to learn more)

TPMS are designed to provide a warning when there is air loss due to puncture or leak at the valve. They are not designed to predict belt or tread separation.

The separation can be detected with certain inspection methods but that is a different topic.
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Old 07-21-2015, 10:55 AM   #56
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Tireman I totally agree with you. With the bubble type failure resulting in a instantaneous blowout there will be zero warning. I have also seen the bubble stay on the tire for some time before it blows and that is why I always perform a visual check on both sides of my tires.
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