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Old 07-30-2015, 08:53 AM   #71
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Subject being a blow out, my son-in-law had an event in his Alfa 40ft coach. Having Goodyear tires, He felt the tire vibration and was able to control and pull over. Auto club directed him to a service for a tire, and eventually he found a source of help. He is not thrilled with the AAA assistance provided. The tire service came out and showed him that the tire still had pressure. The rubber tread had come off and beat things up pretty bad. Back on the road very quickly after a replaced tire (used) but worked, then lost power and shut down. Found that a fuse box in the rt rear had been hit and power fuse to ECU had lost contact. fixed it and running okay now.
Fortunately, he was on a good highway, room to safely get over and wait for service.
He has excellent skills in matters like this.
Yesterday he replaced all 6 tires.
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Old 08-01-2015, 07:20 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
Subject being a blow out, my son-in-law had an event in his Alfa 40ft coach. Having Goodyear tires, He felt the tire vibration and was able to control and pull over. Auto club directed him to a service for a tire, and eventually he found a source of help. He is not thrilled with the AAA assistance provided. The tire service came out and showed him that the tire still had pressure. The rubber tread had come off and beat things up pretty bad. Back on the road very quickly after a replaced tire (used) but worked, then lost power and shut down. Found that a fuse box in the rt rear had been hit and power fuse to ECU had lost contact. fixed it and running okay now.
Fortunately, he was on a good highway, room to safely get over and wait for service.
He has excellent skills in matters like this.
Yesterday he replaced all 6 tires.
Has your son-in-law collected all the information needed to file a complaint with NHTSA? Tread separation is not the same thing as a run low flex failure so not as likely to be "owner didn't have enough air"
If we don't file complaints with NHTSA there will never be an investigation. With no investigation no improvement in quality.
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Old 08-08-2015, 10:54 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by WeBRVing View Post
A properly inflated tire will only increase a few PSI as it's run on the pavement (check your tires before a trip, then at the first gas stop). Temperature will also increase only slightly on a properly inflated tire. Neither is enough to rupture a tire carcass.
Tire failure comes from overloading the tire, running the tire underinflated , age or any combination of these. I recall reading someplace that heat, due to underinflation, is the leading cause of tire failure. A TPMS would certainly help alleviate that.
I don't believe that a tire will let go without some sort of prior warning that a TPMS wouldn't detect.
I had to postpone a trip because when I did my pre-departure check, I discovered one inside dual that only had 20 psi. Took it off and found a large screw in it. Had I not checked the tire pressure before leaving, I surely would have been one of the people on this thread posting their experience with a tire failure while going down the road. TPMS is on the way.

TPMS is being returned for refund. I'll stick with my old school tire checking.
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Old 08-09-2015, 05:34 AM   #74
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King Richard,,,, I have 3 occasions where a tire failed, with no indication of a failure on the TPS until the moment of failure. On one of those my son was behind me in his rig, he saw the tire begin to wobble, shouted out on the cb, and as I pulled over the tire let go. Then my alarm went off!

Ask any of the TPS companies, will they guarantee you will be alerted before a failure? They will not. My experience is if the belts or structure of the tire fails, heat will build, and the tire will self destruct but it occurs in a very short distance when at highway speed.

Is TPS better than nothing, absolutely. But is will not guarantee you won't have a blow out.

L.
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Old 08-09-2015, 09:17 AM   #75
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Just a minute. My tire pressure increases a little more than a few PSI on the road at 60mph. In fact they usually increase by 10 to 15 psi in unison from an early morning start to high afternoon temps.

Although there are no tables available for max road pressures I use the max cold just as a guideline for determining max road pressures.

To do this I put stronger tires on the rig where I could operate at lower cold pressures and not exceed max cold pressures on the road.

I do this because I have one zipper blowout and one bad front blowout. Any way I probably routinely watch my pressures too closely since my problems.

The TPMS has paid for itself by giving me warning of a toad problem that prevented a blowout.
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Old 08-09-2015, 05:15 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by greystroke View Post
Just a minute. My tire pressure increases a little more than a few PSI on the road at 60mph. In fact they usually increase by 10 to 15 psi in unison from an early morning start to high afternoon temps.

Although there are no tables available for max road pressures I use the max cold just as a guideline for determining max road pressures.

To do this I put stronger tires on the rig where I could operate at lower cold pressures and not exceed max cold pressures on the road.

I do this because I have one zipper blowout and one bad front blowout. Any way I probably routinely watch my pressures too closely since my problems.

The TPMS has paid for itself by giving me warning of a toad problem that prevented a blowout.
You don't need a table for the hot pressure load capacity or adjustment as the only pressure we tire engineers talk about when discussing load tables is the pressure as measured when the tires are at Ambient temperature. This means not heated from being in the Sun or having been driven on more than a couple miles in the previous 2 to 3 hours.

Who has identified a "Max hot pressure" to you? Can they provide a source published by a major tire company (Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestone Continental?)

Zipper failure is the result of running with low pressure not having high pressure

If you are running a cold inflation lower than the Load-Inflation tables specify for your actual measured tire loads then you are contributing to your own tire failures.
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Old 08-09-2015, 07:21 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
You don't need a table for the hot pressure load capacity or adjustment as the only pressure we tire engineers talk about when discussing load tables is the pressure as measured when the tires are at Ambient temperature. This means not heated from being in the Sun or having been driven on more than a couple miles in the previous 2 to 3 hours.

Who has identified a "Max hot pressure" to you? Can they provide a source published by a major tire company (Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestone Continental?)

Zipper failure is the result of running with low pressure not having high pressure

If you are running a cold inflation lower than the Load-Inflation tables specify for your actual measured tire loads then you are contributing to your own tire failures.
No one has identified max hot pressure to me and the Zipper blowout pressure was on the mark when cold but could have leaked out on the road.(Reason for getting TPMS) Or they could have been run low before I got the MH.

I can't dispute anything you say and I have read your website and I respect that. Safety lectures I attended certainly agree with you.

But I am not comfortable not paying attention to high road pressures. If the max cold pressure is 120 I certainly on edge once it goes over.

Has there been any testing whatsoever on max road pressures? I haven't found any. There is just a lot of talk that says don't worry about hot pressures. I set my cold pressures IAW Tire and Rim Association tables and actual weight of the MH. So I set them like everybody says I should do but if I see my pressures run too high I am pulling off to find out why.

When my left front tire blew it exploded causing quite a bit of damage. I have no idea of the hot pressure at the time of the explosion. I don't want that to happen again.
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Old 08-09-2015, 10:32 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
You don't need a table for the hot pressure load capacity or adjustment as the only pressure we tire engineers talk about when discussing load tables is the pressure as measured when the tires are at Ambient temperature. This means not heated from being in the Sun or having been driven on more than a couple miles in the previous 2 to 3 hours.

Who has identified a "Max hot pressure" to you? Can they provide a source published by a major tire company (Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestone Continental?)

Zipper failure is the result of running with low pressure not having high pressure

If you are running a cold inflation lower than the Load-Inflation tables specify for your actual measured tire loads then you are contributing to your own tire failures.

Tireman, may I pick your brain for a moment?

My observations on my own vehicles have been that the vehicle manufacturers max cold inflation pressure at X pounds of weight on the tire is significantly lower the the max inflation pressure listed on the tire sidewall.
For example, Fleetwood's recommended max cold inflation for my RV is 90 psi. The max inflation pressure on the tire sidewall is 120 psi.
My car sticker says 30 psi max cold pressure, the tire sidewall says 44 psi max pressure.
This would give the tire room for pressure increases during hot weather as well as running down the road.
I've always been of the thought that under inflation is the biggest enemy a tire has.

I always run the max recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. And, the tires do not wear out the center tread.

Is my old school way of thinking off?

Rich
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Old 08-10-2015, 02:43 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greystroke View Post
No one has identified max hot pressure to me and the Zipper blowout pressure was on the mark when cold but could have leaked out on the road.(Reason for getting TPMS) Or they could have been run low before I got the MH.

I can't dispute anything you say and I have read your website and I respect that. Safety lectures I attended certainly agree with you.

But I am not comfortable not paying attention to high road pressures. If the max cold pressure is 120 I certainly on edge once it goes over.

Has there been any testing whatsoever on max road pressures? I haven't found any. There is just a lot of talk that says don't worry about hot pressures. I set my cold pressures IAW Tire and Rim Association tables and actual weight of the MH. So I set them like everybody says I should do but if I see my pressures run too high I am pulling off to find out why.

When my left front tire blew it exploded causing quite a bit of damage. I have no idea of the hot pressure at the time of the explosion. I don't want that to happen again.

As part of the tire development process we do "blow up" not blowout tires. This is done on special rims as usually the wheel will fail before the tire does.

RE Max pressure on the tire. I think that if you go back and review you will see that the statement is Max Load at xx pressure.

If the tire has not been damaged and is properly inflated for the actual measured load you will not reach a pressure where the tire will fail due to high pressure.

Zipper failures are actually fatigue failures of steel body tires that were run under-inflated and most likely actively leaking. The hot pressure may actually be significantly lower that the CIP but it still sounds like an explosion as it is a sudden loss of air pressure. This one of the problems of using the term "Blowout" which is left over from tube type tires of the 30's. Tires simply do not blowout. Most of the time it is simply a run low flex failure.

Think of the body ply like a paper clip. You can't fail a paper clip by simply pulling on it but if you flex it back and forth it will fall apart in your fingers. Does this mean you suddenly got super powers or that the steel lost its strength due to excessive flexing?

Getting TPMS is definitely a good plan
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Old 08-10-2015, 02:47 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeBRVing View Post
Tireman, may I pick your brain for a moment?

My observations on my own vehicles have been that the vehicle manufacturers max cold inflation pressure at X pounds of weight on the tire is significantly lower the the max inflation pressure listed on the tire sidewall.
For example, Fleetwood's recommended max cold inflation for my RV is 90 psi. The max inflation pressure on the tire sidewall is 120 psi.
My car sticker says 30 psi max cold pressure, the tire sidewall says 44 psi max pressure.
This would give the tire room for pressure increases during hot weather as well as running down the road.
I've always been of the thought that under inflation is the biggest enemy a tire has.

I always run the max recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. And, the tires do not wear out the center tread.

Is my old school way of thinking off?

Rich
Not way off, just adding some words to the tire sidewall. It is zzz Max Load @ xx psi not zzz Load @ xx Max psi

Go take a look and let us know the type & size tire and the actual wording.
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:43 PM   #81
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The pressure on the sidewall of a Michelin RV tire and many others is not the "Maximum" the tire should ever have (unlike car tires) it is the minimum to support the maximum rated carrying capacity of the tire.

From the Michelin RV Tire Guide:
Quote:
"If you look at the tire's sidewall, you'll see the maximum load capacity allowed for the size tire and load rating, and the minimum cold air inflation needed to carry the maximum load."
From page 6 of the GoodYear RV Tire and Care Guide:
Quote:
"How much air is enough?
The proper air inflation for your tires depends on how much your fully loaded RV or trailer weighs. Look at the sidewall of your RV tire and you’ll see the maximum load capacity for the tire size and load rating, as well as the minimum cold air inflation, needed to carry that maximum load."
From TOYO:
Quote:
Q: What are the consequences of inflating the tires to accommodate the actual loads?
A: If the inflation pressure corresponds to the actual tire load according to the tire manufacturer’s load and pressure table, the tire will be running at 100% of its rated load at that pressure. This practice may not provide sufficient safety margin. Any air pressure loss below the minimum required to carry the load can result in eventual tire failure.
But then they go ahead and publish a weight/pressure chart allowing lower pressure for RV's!!

From the August 2010 Motorhome Magazine "Tread Carefully" tire article:
Quote:
The maximum load capacity allowed for the size tire and load rating and the minimum cold air inflation needed to carry that maximum load are located on the tire’s sidewall.
From our owners manual:
Quote:
Federal law requires that the tire’s maximum load rating be molded into the sidewall of the tire.
If you look there, you will see the maximum load allowed and the cold air inflation pressure required to carry that stated maximum load. Less air pressure restricts the tire to carry a lighter load.
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:47 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
As part of the tire development process we do "blow up" not blowout tires. This is done on special rims as usually the wheel will fail before the tire does.

RE Max pressure on the tire. I think that if you go back and review you will see that the statement is Max Load at xx pressure.

If the tire has not been damaged and is properly inflated for the actual measured load you will not reach a pressure where the tire will fail due to high pressure.

Zipper failures are actually fatigue failures of steel body tires that were run under-inflated and most likely actively leaking. The hot pressure may actually be significantly lower that the CIP but it still sounds like an explosion as it is a sudden loss of air pressure. This one of the problems of using the term "Blowout" which is left over from tube type tires of the 30's. Tires simply do not blowout. Most of the time it is simply a run low flex failure.

Think of the body ply like a paper clip. You can't fail a paper clip by simply pulling on it but if you flex it back and forth it will fall apart in your fingers. Does this mean you suddenly got super powers or that the steel lost its strength due to excessive flexing?

Getting TPMS is definitely a good plan
Thanks tireman for taking the time to explain to me. I do "load" my tires as you say IAW Tables plus I add a safety factor to my measured weights. For the record the zipper was on the inside drivers side with no "blow." Just vibration and no damage to the coach. But for the front tire there was nothing left, just the rim and some pieces and lots of damage. So what I do now is monitor the tires and if I see one that grossly different I pull over. Especially the toad tires. In other words I watch them like a hawk. Thanks again.
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