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Old 06-12-2018, 09:15 PM   #1
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Ok guys and or gals, serious problem with my 2006 37’ Monaco Cayman on a Road Master Chassis with a Cummins ISB 300 (5.9 L) Diesel. While preparing for an up-coming cross country trip (July 9, 2018). Chg. eng oil, replaced oil, air & fuel filters. Replaced batteries (4, 6 volt golf cart batteries, house, & 2, 12 volt chassis batteries. COSCO). Started the engine, checked gauges instrument panel etc. Idled engine for a few minutes, continued with other chores etc. about an hour later started the engine again, turned on the cruse control & pressed the cruse speed control to increase the engine RPM, RPM increased to approx 900 RPM, after about 30/40 seconds the check engine light came on & the RPM dropped to idle.
Using the owners manual (section 10, pg 253) performed the onboard diagnostic fault code check, (Code, 111 ECM Critical Internal Failure) (Code, 241 VSS Circuit – Data Erratic Intermittent or Incorrect. Started stopped re-started several times, no change. Soon the batteries fell ill, low charge, hit the booster and starter dragged really bad, let it sit, put the charger on it went to start again, soon as I turned the ignition switch to the on position the engine cranked and started….no joke…, shut it off tried to restart, restart failed. Checked the power to the solenoid, solenoid had power but would not engage. Removed and replaced the starter. Engine started just fine….old starter was completely fried, brushes melted into the armature. Check engine light still on, same codes.
Made arrangements to take the coach to a repair shop, took 2 weeks plus to get it into Cummins, engine lacks power, no engine boost, turbocharger quit working, tachometer erratic, speedometer not working, transmission went into safe mode locked in 3rd gear (Allison 2500MH 5 speed). Cummins said that the 111 code was not there code it was another OEM. Then they plugged their code reader in couldn’t see or read the 111 code, the 241 code said that it was an out-put speed sensor on the back of the transmission, they with-out hesitation exclaimed, WE DON’T WORK ON TRANSMISSION’S. Totally irate & while the coach was still hooked to the heave duty wrecker we left and went to another shop who specializes in RV electrical problems. At this time they no idea what happened or if they can find the problem in a reasonable amount of time,…..Hourly Rate $ 105.00/hr. just 4 electrical, then $ 250.00 for diagnostic’s of the 111 and 241 codes……………..any help or suggestions?????
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:31 PM   #2
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Suggest you disconnect all batteries and let a mechanic re-connect.




Mike
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:30 PM   #3
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Wink

Thanks mike, done that twice
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:56 PM   #4
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I’m guessing you took a pic of battery connections prior to removing old batts. Everything you described almost sounds like over voltage to the starter and modules. I am assuming you wired the two 12 v batts in parallel and the four six volt batts in series parallel for a total voltage of 12 volts on both the house and engine batts. Maybe confirm with a voltmeter. Maybe you have already confirmed all this. Just me thinking about what I would check since this all happened post batt change out.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:05 PM   #5
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Have you disconnected and checked each of the batteries voltage?

Keep us posted on what you find.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:19 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joephome View Post
Ok guys and or gals, serious problem with my 2006 37’ Monaco Cayman on a Road Master Chassis with a Cummins ISB 300 (5.9 L) Diesel. While preparing for an up-coming cross country trip (July 9, 2018). Chg. eng oil, replaced oil, air & fuel filters. Replaced batteries (4, 6 volt golf cart batteries, house, & 2, 12 volt chassis batteries. COSCO). Started the engine, checked gauges instrument panel etc. Idled engine for a few minutes, continued with other chores etc. about an hour later started the engine again, turned on the cruse control & pressed the cruse speed control to increase the engine RPM, RPM increased to approx 900 RPM, after about 30/40 seconds the check engine light came on & the RPM dropped to idle.
Using the owners manual (section 10, pg 253) performed the onboard diagnostic fault code check, (Code, 111 ECM Critical Internal Failure) (Code, 241 VSS Circuit – Data Erratic Intermittent or Incorrect. Started stopped re-started several times, no change. Soon the batteries fell ill, low charge, hit the booster and starter dragged really bad, let it sit, put the charger on it went to start again, soon as I turned the ignition switch to the on position the engine cranked and started….no joke…, shut it off tried to restart, restart failed. Checked the power to the solenoid, solenoid had power but would not engage. Removed and replaced the starter. Engine started just fine….old starter was completely fried, brushes melted into the armature. Check engine light still on, same codes.
Made arrangements to take the coach to a repair shop, took 2 weeks plus to get it into Cummins, engine lacks power, no engine boost, turbocharger quit working, tachometer erratic, speedometer not working, transmission went into safe mode locked in 3rd gear (Allison 2500MH 5 speed). Cummins said that the 111 code was not there code it was another OEM. Then they plugged their code reader in couldn’t see or read the 111 code, the 241 code said that it was an out-put speed sensor on the back of the transmission, they with-out hesitation exclaimed, WE DON’T WORK ON TRANSMISSION’S. Totally irate & while the coach was still hooked to the heave duty wrecker we left and went to another shop who specializes in RV electrical problems. At this time they no idea what happened or if they can find the problem in a reasonable amount of time,…..Hourly Rate $ 105.00/hr. just 4 electrical, then $ 250.00 for diagnostic’s of the 111 and 241 codes……………..any help or suggestions?????
There is usually a small wire, about 14 ga that supplies power directly to the Allison transmission from the batteries. Make sure you did not leave that wire disconnected.

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Old 06-13-2018, 07:00 AM   #7
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My thoughts thinking out loud and assuming that nothing got shorted in the battery replacement process.

Let's not get to lost in the sauce here and KISS

My first instincts from sitting back here in the cheap seats tell me that your low battery charge situation killed your already marginal starter motor and the reason for the cranking with only the key on that freaked you out.

Low voltage situations create an extremely high current draw and that will kill marginal electrical components like you described with your starter.

So the first thing I would do is look over the battery install very carefully one more time visually, then disconnect them ALL the battries and fully charge them and test them ALL and if they test O.K. …..reconnect them all.

Does the engine crank and start?

If Yes....... first thing I would want to know ...What is the charging voltage while running.

If it will NOT start …… start out first with a voltmeter at the batteries and work my way out from there testing.

Some other things that come to mind.

Any service information I have ever read when chasing fault codes states in the first sentence.

“ Are the batteries fully charged?”

and that is for the very good reason the ECM needs a specific voltage for a proper baseline. ( yes I know about lower reference voltage for sensors and low voltage compensation algorithms .. we don’t need to get into that for now)

My thinking is that you started out with batteries that were not charged properly ……and that compound with that your coach is not charging properly......or at all and needs to be checked.

Some fault codes may be due to ECM confusion with the very low voltage

I seem to remember reading previously here at iRV2 about chasing battery charging issues that were related to the chassis battery install and bumping a wire going to the chassis batteries. You may want to do a search here at iRV2

Balh Blah Blah

If it starts?.... what’s the charging voltage ?...good or bad? if bad?.... chase the charging issue.

If it will not CRANK and START ?…chase that issue with a volt meter again starting from the batteries and the cables.

The ECM with a critical internal issue code? and low voltage problems?... I would clear the fault codes and test again with fully charged batteries.

The VSS fault code?... I would clear and see if it re-sets again with fully charged battries ….others here much more knowledgeable than myself can elaborate,but I'm quite sure will the VSS code will cause your cruise control to not function..... nor will your high idle function feature either.


IF something got shorted in the battery replacement process if only for a pico second……. All bets are off and would be starting from the get-go

Happy Trails

ps: How do things function with a battery charger attached to the chassis battries while running could be very telling as to a proper diagnostic path to take.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:40 AM   #8
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X2 on RobRoy's post.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:29 AM   #9
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Are you sure you didn't put 24 volts to it by connecting batteries wrong. Very easy to do.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuhly View Post
Are you sure you didn't put 24 volts to it by connecting batteries wrong. Very easy to do.
Ditto: Just count the fill holes on the batteries. IF you installed 12 volt batteries in the 6 volt slots you could easily fry a starter and many other things by using the emergency start button.

Please turn the batteries off immediately and get a voltmeter. Just too many voltage related issues.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:46 AM   #11
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Another 'ditto' on the 24 volt scenario.
Triple check the connections on the chassis batteries (the 12 volt batteries). My gut says they are connected positive to negative rather than positive to positive and negative to negative.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:43 AM   #12
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Not sure what your problem is but before I replace batteries I always take pictures of how they are wired so I can confirm I rewired correctly, very easy to make a mistake which can cause huge problems. Good luck
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:58 PM   #13
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WOW, WOW.....YOU GUYS & GALS ARE GREAT....So much info to go over, going to start over with the batteries, some things I know for sure at this point... all batteries are new and fully charged (no doubt what so ever) amp gauge (not a light) shows charge rate of 13 volts...with the service personal that verified the hook up? I'm going to go over to the shop, take pictures of the connection and review all of the comments you guys sent. keep you posted, thanks in advance to all who have responded with great comments and possible solutions.
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:42 PM   #14
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"amp gauge (not a light) shows charge rate of 13 volts"

Did you mean 13 amps?
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