Wandering, sway bars, alignment, ride height, oh my!!

[onechaddude]

Originally Posted by mhughes

Chad,

If you are on the west coast I could possibly help you with that.

Mike.

Thank you very much for the offer. Unfortunately I am about as far on the east coast as I can get. I'm in the middle part of north carolina. I wish I was closer. I think something in the rear to keep the rear straight would help tremendously. My coach does have the factory track bar but doesn't seem to help. Thanks again for the offer.

Chad

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by mhughes

Chad,

If you are on the west coast I could possibly help you with that.

Mike is the epitome of what forums are all (supposed to be) about. He has unselfishly helped MORE folks with their Watts link installations, and is almost single-handedly going to be responsible (we hope) for rear X-braces and Watts links becoming commercially available.

Pay it forward!!

[nosnow]

Thanks for the offer Van, but we are a little to far north, Manitoba , Cdn.
On my chassis the rear bags are back of the axle with outboard shocks on end of trailing arms. I am looking at triangle brace from front of each trailing arm mount point on frame to a center link on front of differential. sort of the reverse of braces on 4 bag h-frame. Hendricson suspension has similar setup on their mid-duty chassis. this link would stop axle side travel thru it vertical travel. hope this isn't to confusing.

Thanks, Charlene & JIm

[onechaddude]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Mike is the epitome of what forums are all (supposed to be) about. He has unselfishly helped MORE folks with their Watts link installations, and is almost single-handedly going to be responsible (we hope) for rear X-braces and Watts links becoming commercially available.

Pay it forward!!

Exactly van. There are few people left in the world like mike. I wish I lived close to him if nothing more than to call him a friend. Thanks again mike.

Chad

[nodine]

Originally Posted by nosnow

I was wondering how many have installed cross braces on an RR4 4 bag chassis. I am going to try a set on the back of my 32' Neptune. I"ll have it in the shop next week to change to a TRW steering box, so will fab up a set of braces.

Thanks Char & Jim
03 Neptune 32

I am not familiar with the RR4 but understand it only uses one air bag at each wheel location making it more conventional. It may not have trailing arms in the same sense as the 8 bag chassis with the axle mounted to an H frame. If you could get someone like Van or Mike to take a look it could be worth while. On the 8 bag chassis with the long trailing arms the braces help form a box configuration that reduces side to side movement. You would need to accomplish the same thing on your chassis but it might take a different approach.

Bob

[mhughes]

Aw shucks guys, thanks for all the compliments.

I would still like to study the RR4 chassis if there is someone in Southern California with time to kill.

As for the Commercial RR8 Chassis X-Bars and Watts Links, we are zeroing in on the final designs. I hope the prototypes being produced this week address all the issues raised by observers, installers and by our early adopters.

Most all changes to the design have been to add adjustability to accommodate various models and to ease installation. The primary goal is to have a product that simple and easy to install, can be done in the driveway with simple hand tools and installed quickly when done professionally. The secondary goal is to reduce manufacturing difficulty and costs.

Pushing hard to get one set of the commercial products to Madison for the FMCA Family Reunion. That means I need them boxed and on a truck no later than Wednesday. Not sure I can make it. Still waiting on parts from the commericial manufacturer.

[nodine]

We are at the Monaco International Pre-Rally in Manitowoc WI and parked with the display coaches in front of us. Yesterday morning for kicks I went out and took a look under the front of the new tag axle Diplomat. It is not independent suspension like the Liberty chassis under the Dynasty and has a straight axle with single air bags on each side. It looks like the Frightliner chassis under the Fleetwood Providence. What turned me off the most about the coach beside the "no covers on the slide toppers" was when the steps are in there is a big rectangular opening that exposes the chassis. Looks crappy in my opinion. At least on the Dynasty they cover that opening with a polished metal cover displaying the Monaco emblem. Have not been inside any of the coaches yet but they will be open today.

Bob

[deSanford]

We are on a two month trip up North. The added chassis modifications have made this RV an AMAZING ride. Like it was a high speed train on rails. We just droved the Scenic Cascades two lane twisty, and other words describing extremely curvy
narrow roads, and excited to report these mods RE ALLY WORK. Sanford. Using my cell phone.

[YC1]

After all mods done to my coach it handles incredibly well. I have had two alignments done on it but after the last one I noticed it seemed to pull to the right. That was almost 10K miles ago. I have the normal weird wear on the Goodyears. I would have taken it back to that alignment shop but could not determine there was an issue then with all the winding roads I was on.

The new TRW really allows me complete control but the nagging pull to the right needs to be removed. In the past I would just hit the trim on my safe-t-plus shock but that is not the right thing to do. I checked the paperwork for the alignment and it showed a tiny bit of toe in.

Before anyone says to go to an alignment shop again give me some advice on perhaps adjusting the long tie rod a bit. I turned it one way about 1.5 turns and it seemed to pull just a tad harder to the right. I turned it back the opposite direction after returning to the starting position. The wind was terrible yesterday but it seemed to be slightly better. The steering wheel is now canted to the left when going straight. Of course I can adjust that but I wanted to add that clue to the situation.

If you want to PM me or steer me to a previous post I have not found that is fine. I don't want to hijack this incredible thread.

[zmotorsports]

Originally Posted by YC1

After all mods done to my coach it handles incredibly well. I have had two alignments done on it but after the last one I noticed it seemed to pull to the right. That was almost 10K miles ago. I have the normal weird wear on the Goodyears. I would have taken it back to that alignment shop but could not determine there was an issue then with all the winding roads I was on.

The new TRW really allows me complete control but the nagging pull to the right needs to be removed. In the past I would just hit the trim on my safe-t-plus shock but that is not the right thing to do. I checked the paperwork for the alignment and it showed a tiny bit of toe in.

Before anyone says to go to an alignment shop again give me some advice on perhaps adjusting the long tie rod a bit. I turned it one way about 1.5 turns and it seemed to pull just a tad harder to the right. I turned it back the opposite direction after returning to the starting position. The wind was terrible yesterday but it seemed to be slightly better. The steering wheel is now canted to the left when going straight. Of course I can adjust that but I wanted to add that clue to the situation.

If you want to PM me or steer me to a previous post I have not found that is fine. I don't want to hijack this incredible thread.

Couple things jumped out at me here. First, a slight amount of toe-in really isn't going to cause a pull. I have seen over a 5/16" of toe-in and it not cause any adverse handling issues. Second you say the Goodyear tires have developed an irregular wear pattern. This can be a case of which came first the chicken or the egg. Did an alignment issue cause the irregular tire wear or did the typical Goodyear tires wear in a pattern that has now caused a slight pull.

Did this slight pull to the right just start or has it progressively gotten worse? If it has gotten worse over time it could be tires causing the pull.

Thirdly, what kind of road were you on? If you were on a standard two-lane country road a slight road crown can force the coach to the right slightly and when you say the steering wheel is canted slightly to the left going straight, this could be the fact that you are applying a slight left pressure to the steering wheel to keep the coach going straight. Try it on a good level multi-lane concrete interstate and see if the problem exists or improves, they are much flatter than two-lane highways.

I too recently had an alignment issue on my 03 Dynasty that I worked through and ended up finding I had a thrust angle issue. While I was correcting it I also added a bit more anlge in order to hold road crown better on two-lane highway. She handles like a dream now, should have actually dove deeper into the issue several years ago when I purchased the coach.

Mike.

[YC1]

Had 17K miles on it when a very expensive and exhaustive alignment was done. It pulled right after that. Unfortunately I was not on decent roads for hundreds of miles to be certain.

I have posted the alignment numbers before and a very knowledgeable person suggested they look good. Four large shims were installed to tilt the axle.

Traveling thousands of miles since eliminates the crown issue as being the factor.

The wear is the irregular wear I believe to be rivering. There is not feathering on either tire. I do plan to replace them with a different brand this Fall when we return for the Winter.

I am going to give the tie rod a couple more turns to see if it improves. It will be a couple of days before going on the road again.

If that does not solve it then the safe-t-plus will go back on and I will just trim it out for the remainer of the trip.

[zmotorsports]

Originally Posted by YC1

Had 17K miles on it when a very expensive and exhaustive alignment was done. It pulled right after that. Unfortunately I was not on decent roads for hundreds of miles to be certain.

I have posted the alignment numbers before and a very knowledgeable person suggested they look good. Four large shims were installed to tilt the axle.

Traveling thousands of miles since eliminates the crown issue as being the factor.

The wear is the irregular wear I believe to be rivering. There is not feathering on either tire. I do plan to replace them with a different brand this Fall when we return for the Winter.

I am going to give the tie rod a couple more turns to see if it improves. It will be a couple of days before going on the road again.

If that does not solve it then the safe-t-plus will go back on and I will just trim it out for the remainer of the trip.

Just out of curiosity, when the alignment was done was it solely on the front axle? There is only so much that can be accomplished with the limited adjustability of the front end. In my experience thrust angle on these large coaches is something that seldom if ever gets checked and most large RV's are not adjustable so you have to get creative to correct this.

Personally, I put my driver's side of the drive and tag axle's forward of the passenger's side about a 1/32" to help the coach hold to the road crown. The coach now handles perfectly with the coach staying straight down the road when steering wheel is released. First time it has done that since I have owned it.

The trick would be to find a shop that would go through the long process of correcting the thrust angle if you were to find it was out of spec. This is not a quick or easy adjustment to make.

If you want to see how I corrected mine you can click the link in my signature.

Mike.

[YC1]

They spent close to four hours on mine.

[zmotorsports]

Originally Posted by YC1

They spent close to four hours on mine.

Don't take this the wrong way but there are only a few adjustments on the front axle and none at the rear, the rest must be done by more "extreme" measures. How long they spend on the alignment does not necessarily equate to doing a good job or anything for that matter.

I still have to ask was it front axle only or did they check the thrust angle of the drive axle. Thrust angle plays a big role in where the coach is being told to go.

Just trying to help you diagnose your pull, I am not saying they or you are wrong in any way.

Mike.