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Old 07-27-2015, 03:32 PM   #1485
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Don't take this the wrong way but there are only a few adjustments on the front axle and none at the rear, the rest must be done by more "extreme" measures. How long they spend on the alignment does not necessarily equate to doing a good job or anything for that matter.

I still have to ask was it front axle only or did they check the thrust angle of the drive axle. Thrust angle plays a big role in where the coach is being told to go.

Just trying to help you diagnose your pull, I am not saying they or you are wrong in any way.

Mike.
Here are the specs. I appreciate your help and I understand there is only one adjustment I can make in the field with my limited tools.

Do you think changing the toe in will help or am I just wasting my time? If it is a waste of time I will put my safe-t-plus back on and adjust it so it takes the pressure off the steering.
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Old 07-27-2015, 05:16 PM   #1486
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Originally Posted by YC1 View Post
Here are the specs. I appreciate your help and I understand there is only one adjustment I can make in the field with my limited tools.

Do you think changing the toe in will help or am I just wasting my time? If it is a waste of time I will put my safe-t-plus back on and adjust it so it takes the pressure off the steering.
Myron, according to your spec sheet I don't see anything jumping out at me. The caster looks good, camber is slightly to the positive which is fine, zero or even a quarter to half degree of negative is favorable, but that .2 degrees of positive is not going to affect anything adversely.

As to the rear thrust angle that is about where you want to be to compensate for road crown. A slight amount of positive thrust angle will help to push the coach towards the centerline when road crown is encountered. If it were negative thrust then I would say there was your problem. To be honest that is what I actually thought I was going to see. Mine was to the negative which is why I had to cut and modify my trailing arms to get me closer to where yours is.

At this point based on what I am seeing as far as specs I would think that possibly the adverse tire wear could be causing an issue because nothing on alignment specs are pointing towards any handling issues.

Mike.
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:47 PM   #1487
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Myron,

Before messing with the tow, have the two front tires swapped side to side. See if it is a tire concentricty issue first. If it pulls the other way after swapping, you know it is a tire issue. Sometimes after swapping right and left front tires the problem goes away. If it does, run them that way until you replace them. If not use some rear tires up front, or reinstall the the Safe- T - Plus and trim it out.

1 full turn on the tie rod would be way to much.

I know you are on the road. But if you could raise the front tires off the ground, then using a 2' or 3' 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 with a large nail driven though the board 2" form the end, slide the board with nail side up against the tire, and turn the tire to scribe a clean line around the tire. With a tape measure and a helper, measure half way up the tire on both the front and rear sides of the tread. Then turn the tie rod until the front measurement is 1/8"- 3/16" less than the rear. I really like to lower the tires to the ground and go forward and back a few feet to "settle" the axle, but don't think it will be a big deal.

Over a 1/4" of tow and you might see some featheredging. I did.

Maybe you will solve this yet. I'm in agreement with Mike on the alignment specs. They look just fine with the positive thrust angle aiding a push to the left, not the right, like you have. The front axle specs look great too.
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Old 07-28-2015, 05:51 AM   #1488
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Harry, thanks for the advice. I was worried about swapping tires right to left. I thought there might be an issue running them in the reverse direction.

I turned the connecting rod a bit last night and will have a decent test run today. If no improvement I will adjust it back and just replace the two front tires when I can. They are about aged out anyway.

I watched a video on setting the toe so understand the procedure you suggest.

As for feather edging I could care less. I will never wear the tires out before replacing. With it handling so well it is just annoying having it pull.
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Old 07-28-2015, 07:36 AM   #1489
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Myron,

Before messing with the tow, have the two front tires swapped side to side. See if it is a tire concentricty issue first. If it pulls the other way after swapping, you know it is a tire issue. Sometimes after swapping right and left front tires the problem goes away. If it does, run them that way until you replace them. If not use some rear tires up front, or reinstall the the Safe- T - Plus and trim it out.

1 full turn on the tie rod would be way to much.

I know you are on the road. But if you could raise the front tires off the ground, then using a 2' or 3' 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 with a large nail driven though the board 2" form the end, slide the board with nail side up against the tire, and turn the tire to scribe a clean line around the tire. With a tape measure and a helper, measure half way up the tire on both the front and rear sides of the tread. Then turn the tie rod until the front measurement is 1/8"- 3/16" less than the rear. I really like to lower the tires to the ground and go forward and back a few feet to "settle" the axle, but don't think it will be a big deal.

Over a 1/4" of tow and you might see some featheredging. I did.

Maybe you will solve this yet. I'm in agreement with Mike on the alignment specs. They look just fine with the positive thrust angle aiding a push to the left, not the right, like you have. The front axle specs look great too.

This may sound stupid but I tried to change my toe-in a couple weeks ago. I changed my gear box from Shepard to TRW because of severe wandering issues as discussed on IRV2 elsewhere. Steering is much tighter but it still seems to wander a small amount. All tie rod ends and gear box are totally tight. I looked at my last alignment chart and it showed 1/32" toe so I decided to change it my self to 1/8" or more. I broke the two clamps loose on the ends but for the life of me I could not turn the shaft that changes toe-in. Am I missing some lock or key the holds it in place? How much would it change toe per rotation of the shaft?


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Old 07-28-2015, 07:47 AM   #1490
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This may sound stupid but I tried to change my toe-in a couple weeks ago. I changed my gear box from Shepard to TRW because of severe wandering issues as discussed on IRV2 elsewhere. Steering is much tighter but it still seems to wander a small amount. All tie rod ends and gear box are totally tight. I looked at my last alignment chart and it showed 1/32" toe so I decided to change it my self to 1/8" or more. I broke the two clamps loose on the ends but for the life of me I could not turn the shaft that changes toe-in. Am I missing some lock or key the holds it in place? How much would it change toe per rotation of the shaft?


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Couple of things, first if you changed the gear box and now have a wandering issue I would suspect that maybe the box is not centered exactly. My thinking is the box is fighting to try to find center, just a thought.

Secondly, use a thread pitch gauge and see how many threads per inch (TPI) your tie rod has, most large 1 to 1-1/4" tie rods have either 14 or 12 threads per inch so calculate how much movement per revolution to give you a fairly accurate measurement. For example, a 14 (TPI) tie rod will move approx. .071" (just over 1/16") per revolution of the tie rod.

Thirdly, soak the tie rods/adjusters with some penetrating oil as they get rusted/frozen together and sometimes need some "persuasion".

Mike.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:05 AM   #1491
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...

Secondly, use a thread pitch gauge and see how many threads per inch (TPI) your tie rod has, most large 1 to 1-1/4" tie rods have either 14 or 12 threads per inch so calculate how much movement per revolution to give you a fairly accurate measurement. For example, a 14 (TPI) tie rod will move approx. .071" (just over 1/16") per revolution of the tie rod.

Thirdly, soak the tie rods/adjusters with some penetrating oil as they get rusted/frozen together and sometimes need some "persuasion".

Mike.
Mike is correct except that you need to double the .071" value because there are two rod ends in play, one right hand thread and on left hand.
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:18 AM   #1492
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Mike is correct except that you need to double the .071" value because there are two rod ends in play, one right hand thread and on left hand.
Correct. Sorry about that, need to account for both sides.

Mike.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:56 AM   #1493
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Thanks guys, I will give that a try. I didn't put any penetrating oil on it as I didn't think it would need it. I will try to determine if the gearbox is 'centered'. I read about that in the other thread. I had to have a truck company install it for me due to some eyesight issues at the time. I was assured the drag link was attached to not move the gearbox from center but then you never know what goes on behind closed doors.

Thanks everybody


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Old 07-28-2015, 11:12 AM   #1494
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Alan one of the best penetrant by far is a homemade mixture of 1/2 trans fluid and 1/2 acetone
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:34 AM   #1495
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After the penetrant, a few whacks with a hammer will help it soak in to the threads.

They make a tie rod sleeve turning tool. It hooks into the slot and spreads it open while turning.
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:08 PM   #1496
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I wonder if having the wheels off the ground and feeling for center with the steering wheel or the tires could locate it? Then figure out if the wheels are straight. Is the centering force adjustable on those boxes?
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:42 PM   #1497
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Alan, before you do that what brand are your front tires? I went through the effort of applying penetrating oil, buying a pipe to extend my pipe wrench, and then several tries at adjusting it. Yes it now moves great.

Now I will admit that I have been chasing this pulling thing since my last alignment and those in the know feel my alignment is spec on. Two years and 17K miles.

I must now confess I did not follow the expert advice here and swap the right for the left. It seemed after moving mine a bit (two turns), and it was better. Heck two more turns should be dead on.

Dead WRONG. I intended to replace the two front tires in any case very soon due to age and the strange wear pattern these tires are known for.

After fifty miles I pulled into a rest stop to inspect and was utterly shocked. Both tires were shot. I crawled back under and took the toe back to where it started,. With my trusty Rand Mcnally GPS I had a TA truck stop on the line and they had two new tires waiting. Just 10 miles down the road. The tires were so bad I barely did 45 mph.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. I could have paid much more dearly.

The Firestones were on sale for $425 each. WOW what a difference. Quiet, smooth, and the pull to the right is gone.

Those crappy tires that were on there always seemed soft to me. I had a rear one with a huge soft spot in it with less than 4K miles on it. They said I hit something and would not warranty it. That one cost me $700.

It is tough to make such a dumb confession but if it helps one person it is paid forward.

Expensive week. Catalytic filters are not cheap either. Oh well, camp on.
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:54 PM   #1498
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On the end of the sector shaft, to which the pitman arm is bolted, is a line across it. That line must be a continuation of the timing mark scribed on the steering box, so they both form one line. That is the timing mark for center, even if the steering wheel is not centered. A bright flashlight and a mirror, hopefully, will help you find it.

I believe it was shown in the steering gear box replacement thread.
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