Wandering, sway bars, alignment, ride height, oh my!!

[Happycarz]

For those that don't know, I have Koni's, Roadmaster anti sway bars, X braces, and both front and rear watts links. It also has the TRW steering box on my 08 40' Camelot.

That being said, I found the coach wandering a bit, but attributed it from going from an 1800 lb Smart Car to a 4700 lb GMC Canyon. I thought the toad was just trying to follow the truck ruts, and with it weighing so much more than the Smart Car, it would have more leverage on the back of the coach.

But, not being satisfied, I adjusted the TRW box, but maybe only an 1/8th of a turn. Then as I was greasing the two watts links, I decided to loosen the jam nuts. I tried turning one of the tie rod links and I could turn it easily both ways by hand, which told me I had some free play in the watts link. So, I just turned the rod by hand, shortening it, and putting slight compression tension on it.

Sunday I drove 25 miles to Bill's for our "Fridge party" and it's back to tracking nicely.

It could be the roads to Bill's, but I think having no play in the watts link was the answer. Van and Mike, what do you think?

[mhughes]

I have a couple of years and about 25k miles on mine. I think it is time to check for play in either the bell crank bushing or tie rod ends.

Care needs to be taken to not over tighten the bars. You could easily drive the tie rod end ball out of its socket. Gently snugging one of them them up would be the key. No need to do both bars.

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by Happycarz

For those that don't know, I have Koni's, Roadmaster anti sway bars, X braces, and both front and rear watts links. It also has the TRW steering box on my 08 40' Camelot.

That being said, I found the coach wandering a bit, but attributed it from going from an 1800 lb Smart Car to a 4700 lb GMC Canyon. I thought the toad was just trying to follow the truck ruts, and with it weighing so much more than the Smart Car, it would have more leverage on the back of the coach.

But, not being satisfied, I adjusted the TRW box, but maybe only an 1/8th of a turn. Then as I was greasing the two watts links, I decided to loosen the jam nuts. I tried turning one of the tie rod links and I could turn it easily both ways by hand, which told me I had some free play in the watts link. So, I just turned the rod by hand, shortening it, and putting slight compression tension on it.

Sunday I drove 25 miles to Bill's for our "Fridge party" and it's back to tracking nicely.

It could be the roads to Bill's, but I think having no play in the watts link was the answer. Van and Mike, what do you think?

Harry, I've had personal experience three times now with bolts or lock nuts loosening, and now I Loctite everything. In the beginning, I did not think that would be necessary, but the evidence points to two things--
1) There is enough force being absorbed by the Watts linkage that fasteners can become loose.
2) More importantly, as I've stated before, I think I was wrong about the amount of motion we are trying to prevent with the Watts link. I originally thought it might be something between 1/8 and 1/4. That was pure speculation based on the "tail wag" test. There is mounting evidence that the amount of movement the Watts link is preventing is much less, perhaps as little as 1/16". I have come to that conclusion based on three instances like the one you described. Each time a fastener loosened, the driver could tell that the coach's tracking suffered.

So, for all of you that have Watts links and X-braces installed, periodically check them for tightness and always use Loctite. I think the Blue Loctite is sufficient. Red can be a real bear to disassemble, frequently requiring heating the fastener.

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by Kurt Averill

Looks to me like it should work fine - might be a bit of a pain to deal with the seam in the tube when assembling. Should be a one time use, so you could always weld it when you are done. I hope the rear alignment is the issue, and not a crooked or bent housing. Looking forward to seeing how it all turns out.

For Myron and other Floridians, best of luck to you. We have family who stayed - no power and things pretty torn up in their area - can't get around much yet.

Kurt, I expected to have to mill a shallow 1/8 wide "trough" in the 1.50 square to accommodate the weld. You are right--it is impossible to get a close slip fit without that. Based on some 2x2x1/4 tubing I have on hand, I will likely have to mill the outside dimensions of the 1.50 square slightly smaller.

[zmotorsports]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Harry, I've had personal experience three times now with bolts or lock nuts loosening, and now I Loctite everything. In the beginning, I did not think that would be necessary, but the evidence points to two things--
1) There is enough force being absorbed by the Watts linkage that fasteners can become loose.
2) More importantly, as I've stated before, I think I was wrong about the amount of motion we are trying to prevent with the Watts link. I originally thought it might be something between 1/8 and 1/4. That was pure speculation based on the "tail wag" test. There is mounting evidence that the amount of movement the Watts link is preventing is much less, perhaps as little as 1/16". I have come to that conclusion based on three instances like the one you described. Each time a fastener loosened, the driver could tell that the coach's tracking suffered.

So, for all of you that have Watts links and X-braces installed, periodically check them for tightness and always use Loctite. I think the Blue Loctite is sufficient. Red can be a real bear to disassemble, frequently requiring heating the fastener.

Van, I too have had my fasteners loosen twice on my coach in about 18k miles that I have on mine. I too use Blue Loctite and thus far have been fine for this year.

Last year I had the center pivot bolt fall out and the crank/pivot plate fell down onto the back of the generator support tray. I could feel the decline in steering response as it was noticeable. Upon stopping at the campground in MT, I crawled under to find the pivot missing and lying on the generator tray. Luckily the bolt and center bushing were also lying on the generator tray so I was able to merely reinstall it and upon arriving home disassembled and applied the Loctite. So far so good.

Mike

[wackymac]

Here is some interesting reading on the difference between a Panhard rod and a Watts linkage.

The Differences Between A Panhard Bar And A Watt's LinkTurnology

[10Boomer]

Originally Posted by zmotorsports

Van, I too have had my fasteners loosen twice on my coach in about 18k miles that I have on mine. I too use Blue Loctite and thus far have been fine for this year.

Last year I had the center pivot bolt fall out and the crank/pivot plate fell down onto the back of the generator support tray. I could feel the decline in steering response as it was noticeable. Upon stopping at the campground in MT, I crawled under to find the pivot missing and lying on the generator tray. Luckily the bolt and center bushing were also lying on the generator tray so I was able to merely reinstall it and upon arriving home disassembled and applied the Loctite. So far so good.

Mike

Hi Mike,
Update: my watts link yesterday was loose also. While I was servicing generator I did a double check, used blue locktite. Like Harry and Van, I relieved some pressure then equally adjusted both sides. Not too bad!
X bracing for back this next QZ trip.

FYI I just received my. Instruction plans back for RV garage at our new property. 20x 48. Not a high shop, but should allow a little moving around. Take care Mike.

[zmotorsports]

Originally Posted by 10Boomer

Hi Mike,
Update: my watts link yesterday was loose also. While I was servicing generator I did a double check, used blue locktite. Like Harry and Van, I relieved some pressure then equally adjusted both sides. Not too bad!
X bracing for back this next QZ trip.

FYI I just received my. Instruction plans back for RV garage at our new property. 20x 48. Not a high shop, but should allow a little moving around. Take care Mike.

That is great news on the RV garage Perry. I'm happy for ya. Looking forward to seeing pictures of it.

Mike

[nodine]

Originally Posted by 10Boomer

Hi Mike,
Update: my watts link yesterday was loose also. While I was servicing generator I did a double check, used blue locktite. Like Harry and Van, I relieved some pressure then equally adjusted both sides. Not too bad!
X bracing for back this next QZ trip.

FYI I just received my. Instruction plans back for RV garage at our new property. 20x 48. Not a high shop, but should allow a little moving around. Take care Mike.

Perry,

Just finished our RV garage and I would suggest you go wider and longer. Ours has an outside dimension of 26 x 48 but the inside dimension is 46'8" by 25'8", Our coach is 40'10" plus the towbar is stored on the rear. I accounted for opening the slides while the coach is inside and that works out. Just missed the brace for the small garage door opener by two inches when the big road side slide is open. As mother always said "an inch is good as a mile", but I was sweating it. What I did not consider is our basement doors. They are the long ones that swing out. On the roadside we can get them open as long as the pickup truck in the adjoining bay is positioned in the center of the door. On the curb side they almost open 100 % but hit the wall just enough to keep the slideout tray from opening all the way and my tool box drawers in the rear compartment will not open all the way before hitting the door. I placed rubber chocks to get the coach in position so the doors to the radiator will open fully and the generator slide can be fully opened for service. It is close but workable.

Another place we messed up was the small door is only 8 x 8 and since designing the garage we have purchased a full size pickup that lives in that bay. We have to put one mirror in to get thru the door. One nice feature is we have a 16 foot ceiling and are able to get on top of the coach and work. Also made the investment of an HVAC system. We never winterize the coach and most likely will break even on the monthly cost since we had to keep the heat running in the coach. Now we have the coach heat off and let the HVAC keep the garage heated or cooled. Nice since we have our work shop in there also. It was heaven this week working on the coach in that comfortable garage out of the sun.

Bob

[windsorbill]

Originally Posted by 10Boomer

Hi Mike,
Update: my watts link yesterday was loose also. While I was servicing generator I did a double check, used blue locktite. Like Harry and Van, I relieved some pressure then equally adjusted both sides. Not too bad!
X bracing for back this next QZ trip.

FYI I just received my. Instruction plans back for RV garage at our new property. 20x 48. Not a high shop, but should allow a little moving around. Take care Mike.

I built my garage back in 2007-08. My draftsman made the outside overall dimension 50' deep and I caught it before he submitted it to the city for permitting. He misunderstood me as I wanted 50' inside clear with garage door down. He corrected it and I'm glad we did. In about 9 years I have never gone back there and said I wished I made it smaller.

[mhughes]

Checked my front watts today. Not loose at all. No adjustment needed after 2+ years and more than 20k miles.

You guys and those big garages! I'm jealous, my little steel building is only 23 x 41 (inside). Coach fits in with only 3 inches in the rear and 3 inches in front of the mirrors. Just enough room in front to walk past the coach with the door shut.

[10Boomer]

Originally Posted by mhughes

Checked my front watts today. Not loose at all. No adjustment needed after 2+ years and more than 20k miles.



You guys and those big garages! I'm jealous, my little steel building is only 23 x 41 (inside). Coach fits in with only 3 inches in the rear and 3 inches in front of the mirrors. Just enough room in front to walk past the coach with the door shut.

Mike I figured it would be ok since we installed together at QZ. But I did a no no and didn't recheck after that trip. It didn't take but maybe a 1/2 turn to snug it up.
It's a squeeze to get the garage in with all the required set backs. I feel fortunate that it's a little bigger than the original design. We will see, I'll be at the property 1st week of Oct to stake the site with home, garage and shop, RV garage and required septic and storm water pit. 🤞🏻🤞🏻

[10Boomer]

Originally Posted by windsorbill

I built my garage back in 2007-08. My draftsman made the outside overall dimension 50' deep and I caught it before he submitted it to the city for permitting. He misunderstood me as I wanted 50' inside clear with garage door down. He corrected it and I'm glad we did. In about 9 years I have never gone back there and said I wished I made it smaller.

Garages you never have enough room Bill!

[10Boomer]

Originally Posted by nodine

Perry,



Just finished our RV garage and I would suggest you go wider and longer. Ours has an outside dimension of 26 x 48 but the inside dimension is 46'8" by 25'8", Our coach is 40'10" plus the towbar is stored on the rear. I accounted for opening the slides while the coach is inside and that works out. Just missed the brace for the small garage door opener by two inches when the big road side slide is open. As mother always said "an inch is good as a mile", but I was sweating it. What I did not consider is our basement doors. They are the long ones that swing out. On the roadside we can get them open as long as the pickup truck in the adjoining bay is positioned in the center of the door. On the curb side they almost open 100 % but hit the wall just enough to keep the slideout tray from opening all the way and my tool box drawers in the rear compartment will not open all the way before hitting the door. I placed rubber chocks to get the coach in position so the doors to the radiator will open fully and the generator slide can be fully opened for service. It is close but workable.



Another place we messed up was the small door is only 8 x 8 and since designing the garage we have purchased a full size pickup that lives in that bay. We have to put one mirror in to get thru the door. One nice feature is we have a 16 foot ceiling and are able to get on top of the coach and work. Also made the investment of an HVAC system. We never winterize the coach and most likely will break even on the monthly cost since we had to keep the heat running in the coach. Now we have the coach heat off and let the HVAC keep the garage heated or cooled. Nice since we have our work shop in there also. It was heaven this week working on the coach in that comfortable garage out of the sun.



Bob

Thanks for the info Bob, I'm pretty restricted by lot size and set backs. I hope for sure this will fit. I will know 1st week in Oct. The roof or ceiling area is 16 feet also. Single 15 foot roll up door. Only one side man door. This RV garage isn't attached to any other structure.