RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Monaco Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-07-2018, 08:50 AM   #2507
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,267
When will I ever learn? Never COMPOSE a post on the built-in editor of iRV2. It can miraculously disappear at any moment. I had written quite a response, and it just disappeared. I’ll repeat it, and compose in MS Word, then paste.

Well, the Great Blizzard of 2018 has turned into the Deep Freeze of 2018. It’s 3*F here in the Heart of Dixie this morning. Needless to say, without a single day above freezing since the snow, nothing has melted. I’ve scraped my 800 foot driveway as best I can, and even took the tractor out to scrape the 1/4 mile stretch between my driveway and an intersection leading to a highway. No luck. The snow is gone off the road, but sheet ice remains. If I pull out of my driveway, coach will probably slowly slide off the side of the road due to the way it’s banked. Realistically, it may be Tuesday before I can get out of here. Monday will be the first day above freezing.

Bob Nodine told me that the Safe-T-Steer unit I inherited with the coach had a centering spring and had to be installed with the wheels straight ahead to prevent it from pulling. This is the unit that is nothing other than a large hydraulic damper, with no external controls. With great hopes, I loosened the bracket holding it to the relay rod, hoping it would move. That would mean it was pulling on its on. No joy there—it did not move at all. Removed it anyway for the upcoming road test.

Harry, I will swap the front tires after the road test, even if it seems like a long shot. Hopefully, these tires don’t have a “rolling direction” marked on them.

Still, I can't ignore that the PS duals were SO MUCH more worn than the DS duals. That seems like a classic case of rear axle misalignment, don't you think? Even if a front end was badly out of alignment, I can't see that causing a huge difference in wear of the rear tires. And the truck alignment shop said the front end needed nothing changed.

I would love to be able to take measurements to verify alignment. Several of you suggested it, and it is a great idea. There are some points on the front axle that I can use. Unfortunately, unless I’ve missed something, there simply is no point on the rear axle that is “factory” that I can use. If I use anything that was welded on by Monaco, there is no guarantee that point is geometrically correct. If I’ve overlooked something, let me know—my ego ain’t fragile, and I’m running out of ideas. As I write this, it occurs to me that I could machine something that would look like a T-square and use a couple of the wheel studs in the top crossbar of the “T”. Bolt it on, and rotate the drum until the “post” of the “T” was vertical. Not a one-hour project, though. OTOH, I’ve had the tires/wheels off this beast so many times it’s old hat. It’s still a chore, though, for an old fart. Those freakin’ wheels are HEAVY!

Myron, how could you NOT come to Q? Every year, there are more electrical gremlins than anything else. You could be the star of the show. Give us some help! BTW, where do you live?

Wow! It’s up to 10*F. Time to go to work on the beast.
__________________

__________________
Van W 2000 Dynasty 36, pulling one Harley
Southeastern NC
Vanwill is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-07-2018, 11:21 AM   #2508
Senior Member
 
rmcb's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: N. California
Posts: 820
Van,
I have lost several of my beautifully worded posts this same way and every time I redo them, they just don't come out as good as the first time. I think your MS word idea is a good one and now I will try that too.

I've been loosing a lot of sleep over your pulling issue, trying to come up with something remotely intelligent to say, but no luck. You have got to solve this or I will be dangerous on the road to Q from lack of sleep.

I do wonder though, whether there is any way the front axle could be out of alignment with the front H frame enough to cause your problem, but maybe someone else already said that or your alignment shop already ruled that out.

I hope you get out of your driveway soon Van. We are looking forward to seeing you again.

Roy
__________________

__________________
Roy and Debbie
07 Diplomat 38 PDQ
rmcb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 12:16 PM   #2509
Senior Member
 
Kurt Averill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 135
Good morning Van, here in balmy Western Colorado it is currently 34* with a skiff of snow - our second of the year. Streets are clear and our expected high is 47* - supposed to be 51* on Tuesday. Its setting up as a pretty severe drought year for us.
My Safe-T-steer also has a centering spring. I verified this by lifting the front wheels off the ground and turning the steering wheel - engine off, it spins right back to center. It doesn't take much movement of the bracket on the tie rod to introduce or cancel a pull. I had mine "centered" - still had a consistent pull to the right, so I moved the bracket on the tie rod slightly and that took care of it. It was the centering spring in the Safe-T causing the pull. As Myron alluded to - you can use the thing to compensate for road conditions if you make it adjustable as he did - I think they make a factory "trim" kit for it as well.
I agree that the PS dual tire wear is telling you something. I don't think it is necessarily related to the pull, sure could be two different issues. Are you sure that the rear tires were all of the same age and spent their lives in the same position? When I had new steer tires put on the front of my coach - we put the best 4 on the ground in the back - and not necessarily where they came off...
In terms of the rear alignment - The easiest way I know how to do it is with a plumb bob, some masking tape, and string lines or chalk lines. The hub pilot for the wheel is a very precise point to work off if you have hub piloted wheels - which I'm fairly sure you do. Its harder to explain it than it is to do - I'd be happy to explain what I know if it will help - just shoot me a PM and I'll write a short novel ( I suck at explaining ) or call you at your convenience.
__________________
99 Executive 38 - no slides
M11 450 pulling a 28' race car trailer
Kurt Averill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 04:52 PM   #2510
YC1
Senior Member
 
YC1's Avatar


 
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,812
Van, I have been driven to drink when a long post goes off on its own. I still get sucker punched on occasions but mostly I grab a blank word processor page and save that as I go. It does spell check but unfortunately it does not have Stupid Check. !!!

We used to live just North of Sacramento Ca. That would have been an easy drive.

Four years ago we moved 30 miles East of Lazy Daze in Florida where we have met at the Monaco get together.

My wife Debbie has IVIG which is infusions every two weeks. The nurse comes to our home. That is hampering our long distance travels a bit. She may be able to do some other treatments so we can again travel long distances.

She just dropped a bombshell on me a couple of minutes ago and was very sincere. She said "why not go and I will stay at our daughters house".

Hmmmm. I have plenty of voltmeters and as you know I love to show off my skills, much like your art work.
__________________
Myron & Deborah
08 HR Endeavor 40 SKQ
2012 Ford Edge Limited FWD 3.5L
Aluminator tow bar, Demco base plate
YC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 07:17 PM   #2511
Senior Member
 
10Boomer's Avatar


 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,667
Wandering, sway bars, alignment, ride height, oh my!!

Van that too cold for me buddy, brrrr. Back to discussion: I agree with Kurt, the hubs are a good starting point, then leveling whole coach on jack stands etc, etc. plumb bob, string, tape, chalk or sharpie. You can tell if something is not right. Front end to rear end etc.
Tires again, the PS vs DS tells me something is scrubbing.
Just thinking like your were I would think you have rear steer induced scrub, hence why you adjusted the trailing arm.
The unknown is from what “correctly verified” point.
Kaiser did check my alignment front to back at four corners with there laser. Then the tech was looking at the front end geometry. With larger coaches like Marathon( who they have a factory contract with). They believe in proper caster adjustment Some coaches require more right than others. They verify via test drive and alignment machine.

By all means be careful driving out to QZ, Mother Nature is nothing to mess with as I know from last year.
__________________
Perry & Julie: 2008 Monaco Camelot 40PDQ, 400ISL, Toad; 2015 Chevy Equinox.
10Boomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 10:22 PM   #2512
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,267
Roy, Kurt, Myron and Perry,

Thanks for your ideas and help.

Since I am so late leaving for Q, I violated one of the cardinal rules of troubleshooting—don’t change two things at once. Before getting to try out the shortened trailing arms (could not get out of my driveway), I removed the Safe-T-Steer. It did not seem to me that it was exerting any pressure on the relay rod—the bracket did not seem to move when I unbolted it. But I had the front of the coach raised high enough that the DS restraint chain I had welded on was pulling up on the axle, so there was very little weight on the front axle, and the wheels could have moved IFF the STS (Safe-T-Steer…I’m getting tired of typing that) was exerting any pressure. So, my test drive was with trailing arms shortened about 1/2", AND removal of the STS.

But here are the results—Some snow melted, and I was able to get the coach out of the driveway and go for a 12-mile run that included some divided highway, some wide two-lane roads and a little bit of narrow country road. The pull is, I think, completely gone. What little is left seems to be coming from road crown. On the country road, if I straddle the centerline (no traffic, of course), the coach seems to drive perfectly straight with no hands on the wheel.

So, now I don’t know if the straight tracking is due to the trailing arm adjustment, or the removal of the STS. One possibility is that 1) the STS was responsible for the hard pull to the right and 2) the rear axle misalignment was responsible for the difference in DS vs PS dual tire wear. Z-Mike shortened his trailing arms only 1/8” and he said that was sufficient to cure BOTH a hard pull to one side, AND irregular tire wear.

Perhaps to one of you this will be another clue about what was actually responsible for what—Even though the coach now tracks straight with no hands on the wheel, the steering wheel position appears to be exactly the same as before. Before, when traveling on a straight, level Interstate highway, the steering wheel was clocked to the left approximately 30*. NOW, when driving straight, it is STILL clocked about the same 30* left…center the steering wheel in the nominal straight-ahead position, and the coach will move to the right quickly. Repositioning the steering wheel is no problem—just move it on the splines under the tilt-telescope assembly.

I surely wish I had not removed that STS before a test drive. It is possible it was responsible for most (or all) of the pull to the right. HOWEVER, if Z-Mike got a major change in the tracking of his coach by shortening the trailing arms 1/8”, and I’ve shortened mine by about 1/2" (too far?), I would have expected my coach to reverse its pulling tendency to the RIGHT, and begin pulling to the LEFT. My coach now absolutely DOES NOT pull to the LEFT. With that large change in trailing arm length (and no STS) it seems to be NEUTRAL—no pull left or right.

Bottom line—I’m still baffled about what was going on with my coach. If the STS was actually at fault, but I changed the trailing arm length by a huge amount, why is it not pulling in the OTHER direction? I really do need to come up with a method to measure that alignment. Kurt, perhaps we can talk on the phone once I get to Q. I had never considered removing the wheels to get that measurement, but using the hub-pilot sounds like an accurate way to do it.

Myron, COME TO QUARTZSITE!! I’m leaving tomorrow, and will meander my way out there.

Thanks again for all the thought and effort you guys put into trying to noodle out this paradox. Please keep thinking about it, and let me know if you come up with anything. Hope to see you all at Q someday.
__________________
Van W 2000 Dynasty 36, pulling one Harley
Southeastern NC
Vanwill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 10:49 PM   #2513
Senior Member
 
10Boomer's Avatar


 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,667
Glad you have the pull to tight resolved. Yes the cardinal rule of changing to much at one time.
It could have been STS mostly. Hard to tell, that would lend it self to harder steering maybe, don’t know I don’t have one.
On you trip pay close attention to tire treads and heat if possible side to side and across the tread.
Maybe this will garner some info.
__________________
Perry & Julie: 2008 Monaco Camelot 40PDQ, 400ISL, Toad; 2015 Chevy Equinox.
10Boomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 08:20 AM   #2514
Senior Member
 
zmotorsports's Avatar


 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,913
Van, sorry, I've been working in the shop all weekend and haven't been online to read about your adjustments.

Glad to hear you resolved the pull, but like you I'm baffled by the fact that by moving the rear axle .5" it isn't netting you a pull in the opposite direction.

My coach 95.78% of the time (just a guess there) tracks dead nuts straight. The other 4.22% is if I encounter a road that has just a bit more road crown than normal. Also on a perfectly flat concrete interstate, if I lift my hands from the steering wheel the coach will in fact drift ever so slightly to the left within I would say a couple of hundred yards but I can live with that because we prefer to travel two-lane backroads so that is why I went with just a little more positive thrust angle.
__________________
Mike & Chrystal/ 2011 Jeep JKUR
FMCA # F315002
Our 2003 Monaco Dynasty Mods/Repairs Thread
zmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 09:28 AM   #2515
Community Moderator
 
barmcd's Avatar


 
Monaco Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 8,361
Van, I'm wondering if a "pull to the right" being caused by the STS could have any impact on the rear tires?
__________________
Dennis and Katherine
2000 Monaco Dynasty
barmcd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 09:43 AM   #2516
YC1
Senior Member
 
YC1's Avatar


 
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,812
I had the STS on my coach for many years. The pull to the right was there before the install and is still there after its removal.

With the terrible wandering it had, sawing the steering wheel back and forth against that blue monster wore me out and 300 miles a day was enough.

Van, how about building a bracket to attach to the rear lug nuts that would hold a lazer light?? I think that is basically how it is done anyway. Remove two opposing lug nuts, put the device on the lug and bolt down. ??? Problem solving 101, throw crazy ideas out and let everyone build on them.
__________________
Myron & Deborah
08 HR Endeavor 40 SKQ
2012 Ford Edge Limited FWD 3.5L
Aluminator tow bar, Demco base plate
YC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 09:44 AM   #2517
YC1
Senior Member
 
YC1's Avatar


 
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,812
How do we know the front end thrust angle is correct??
__________________
Myron & Deborah
08 HR Endeavor 40 SKQ
2012 Ford Edge Limited FWD 3.5L
Aluminator tow bar, Demco base plate
YC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 11:23 AM   #2518
Senior Member
 
Kurt Averill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 135
I wish I could say I've never done that... The good news - it is driving the way you want it to - if you can solve the tire wear mystery your goals will be met. I always try to start at zero with an issue - everything adjusted and pointed in the right direction - and most of the time that gets us where we want to be; on the other hand, sometimes we just have to give them what they want. In a race car ( drag car ) we almost always have to pre-load or adjust the suspension from "neutral" to get the car to launch and drive straight. Some cars, especially really high powered stuff sometimes need a little rear steer to go straight. So - within reason - you give them what they want to get the result you want - and if that isn't geometrically perfect - so be it.
My understanding of the STS ( I hate typing it too!) is that its major function is as a steering damper in the case of a blow out, and to a lesser degree to help keep things headed straight - maybe as a bit of a crutch for a sloppy steering box or whatever. With a little adjustment mine seems to be fine - I'll be curious to see what your opinion is after running without for a bit, maybe I'll try it too.
It would be nice if someone could get a visual on the coach from behind as you are driving down a straight stretch to see how it looks, see if it appears to be "crabbing" or looks nice and straight.
When I did the bushings and extra panhard bars in mine, I did the front first. ( I had my reasons ) After the front was done, going straight down the road went from being pretty much straight on the steering wheel ( on average ) to about 30* off. After I did the rear bushings and bar - it went right back to where it started - never had to adjust it.
__________________
99 Executive 38 - no slides
M11 450 pulling a 28' race car trailer
Kurt Averill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 03:15 PM   #2519
Senior Member
 
nodine's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
Posts: 3,331
Van,

Glad you got the coach out and no longer have the pull. I know it will haunt you until you know which change effected the cancellation of the pull. I have not been back on irv2 since early yesterday so just saw your post. You are most likely on the road now or stopped for the night. I doubt you are taking I-40 due to the time of year, but if you are and passing thru Knoxville, give me a call and we can meet for a short visit.

Bob
__________________
Bob and Pam
2006 Diplomat 40PDQ
2013 Silverado Z71 CrewCab
nodine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 11:06 PM   #2520
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,267
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodine View Post
Van,

Glad you got the coach out and no longer have the pull. I know it will haunt you until you know which change effected the cancellation of the pull. I have not been back on irv2 since early yesterday so just saw your post. You are most likely on the road now or stopped for the night. I doubt you are taking I-40 due to the time of year, but if you are and passing thru Knoxville, give me a call and we can meet for a short visit.

Bob
Thanks for all the suggestions from you veteran gearheads. I’m in northern FL now, at Tom and Paula’s. After that long drive from Pinehurst, NC to Hawthorne, FL, I can conclusively say that the pull to the right is NOT gone. It requires much less effort to turn the steering wheel to the 30* left position to counteract the pull to the right, and it will no longer DART off to the right, but probably the same thing that caused the pull to the right is still there. The only change may be simply that the STS centering spring is no longer making that 30* left correction require as much effort.

Yes, Kurt (and others), I’m searching for some other solution. Perhaps it is front axle alignment. I will have to figure out a way to confirm that.

Thanks for all the effort from you guys. I’m still searching…and still baffled.
Gearheads! Meet me at Q! Myron, have you left yet? 😊
__________________

__________________
Van W 2000 Dynasty 36, pulling one Harley
Southeastern NC
Vanwill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.