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Old 01-12-2018, 11:15 AM   #2535
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Still, I can't ignore that the PS duals were SO MUCH more worn than the DS duals. That seems like a classic case of rear axle misalignment, don't you think? .
No, I don't think so, misalignment of the rear axle would affect all the tires on that solid axle tube to some extent, not just the tires on one end.

You said you tested the brakes and they weren't dragging. I liked that statement. You should have continued your thinking about the "not dragging" part.

I think your tire wear is due to the brake on the DS dual not dragging, as in "not working". When you step on the brakes, the PS brakes operates normally and in your case probably provides 80 or 90% of the braking from the rear axle, scrubbing off the tread of the PS tires in the process. Check on that DS rear brake. Seen this happen before.
This sort of reminds me of the guy that parked beside me in Missouri that had four bald tires (2 on the dolly and 2 in the car) from his tow dolly where he was over working the surge brakes and scrubbing all the rubber off the tires.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:53 PM   #2536
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One last thing I forgot to cover in my last post, if you're really thinking about screwing around with the steering wheel. You seemed to indicate you were going to remove the wheel and re-index it on the shaft.

Don't get me wrong here, I suggest you screw around with the steering wheel position, a wheel that much off would drive e crazy and get immediate attention.

Look at the drag link and see if there is an adjustment there, if there is, use it. If you re-index the wheel on the shaft, you might end up with turn signals that click off with a very small movement to the left and require a large movement to the right to cancel them. It would depend on the location of the turn signal cams (steering wheel or steering shaft).

If the signals cancel evenly, right or left, now with the wheel to the left, make the adjustment on the steering shaft because the shaft is straight and the wheel is off. If cancellation isn't even now, adjust the drag link so the shaft and steering wheel come back to center position together.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:17 PM   #2537
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I need to adjust my drag link because changing just one slot on the steering shaft is too much. My wheel is off about an inch.

A self inflicted wound from changing the TRW.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:34 AM   #2538
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No, I don't think so, misalignment of the rear axle would affect all the tires on that solid axle tube to some extent, not just the tires on one end.
Definitely not so. Re-think that and consider the tire patches as corners of a rectangle. If one side were 1/2" short, and the other 1/2" long, you might be correct.

One of our sharpest contributors, Mike Zeuch, had this problem on his 2003 Dynasty. His "fix" is well documented.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:38 AM   #2539
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I think your tire wear is due to the brake on the DS dual not dragging, as in "not working". When you step on the brakes, the PS brakes operates normally and in your case probably provides 80 or 90% of the braking from the rear axle, scrubbing off the tread of the PS tires in the process. Check on that DS rear brake. .
Alan, very unlikely anyone could have that much difference in tire wear and not feel a HUGE pull to one side or the other when braking. And I've been through all the brakes on this coach some time ago. Had no effect on the pulling to the right. I've probably had wheels and brake drums off his coach more than anyone else on this thread.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:44 AM   #2540
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One last thing I forgot to cover in my last post, if you're really thinking about screwing around with the steering wheel. You seemed to indicate you were going to remove the wheel and re-index it on the shaft.

Don't get me wrong here, I suggest you screw around with the steering wheel position, a wheel that much off would drive e crazy and get immediate attention.

Look at the drag link and see if there is an adjustment there, if there is, use it. If you re-index the wheel on the shaft, you might end up with turn signals that click off with a very small movement to the left and require a large movement to the right to cancel them. It would depend on the location of the turn signal cams (steering wheel or steering shaft).

If the signals cancel evenly, right or left, now with the wheel to the left, make the adjustment on the steering shaft because the shaft is straight and the wheel is off. If cancellation isn't even now, adjust the drag link so the shaft and steering wheel come back to center position together.
Yes, I will "screw around" with the wheel position when the time comes, since wheel position (not shaft position) is the only thing that causes turn signals to cancel evenly.

Alan, we all appreciate thoughtful contributions from new contributors to this thread and the one about steering box changes. I think a lot of the content of your posts indicates you are unfamiliar with the problems common to the Roadmaster chassis. Go back through this thread and the one on changing steering gears and I think you will gain some insight you might not presently have.

Thanks for your thoughts.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:24 PM   #2541
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I'm not on the same techinical plane as the rest of the guys on this thread, but my Beaver developed a mild right pull, so I went to Kaiser Alignment in Eugene. The added caster to the right, test drove, then swapped front tires side to side. No more pull. Van, hope your fix is as simple!

Enjoy Q!
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:50 PM   #2542
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I'm not on the same techinical plane as the rest of the guys on this thread, but my Beaver developed a mild right pull, so I went to Kaiser Alignment in Eugene. The added caster to the right, test drove, then swapped front tires side to side. No more pull. Van, hope your fix is as simple!

Enjoy Q!
Bill, I can't say I've ever switched the front tires side-for-side. I've never been able to think of any logical reason it would change anything. BUT, I believe things that guys like you say, and several others have said that was their solution. In my case, I put on new steer tires just before the Alaska trip, and it did not change the pull. When I get home next month, I will probably try that, anyway.

Still trying to think of a logical reason that making a huge change in trailing arm length on one side would not make a change (better or worse) in the pulling to one side. I wish my story could have a happy ending like Mike Zeuch's.

Thanks!
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:03 PM   #2543
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We just missed you guys in Valemont, BC by a day or two when you came back from AK! Stayed in the same campground there (and enjoyed Three Summits beer downtown!)
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:19 PM   #2544
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Bill, I can't say I've ever switched the front tires side-for-side. I've never been able to think of any logical reason it would change anything. BUT, I believe things that guys like you say, and several others have said that was their solution. In my case, I put on new steer tires just before the Alaska trip, and it did not change the pull. When I get home next month, I will probably try that, anyway.



Still trying to think of a logical reason that making a huge change in trailing arm length on one side would not make a change (better or worse) in the pulling to one side. I wish my story could have a happy ending like Mike Zeuch's.



Thanks!


Well it will make for great discussions around the camp fire or coffee in the mornings.
See you there Van and Cruz. The tech at Kaiser was very knowledgeable and explained why or what he was doing and what affect it will have.
My back ground is in flying, building many race cars over the year in Nascar and driving. Sometimes it just can’t be explained!
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:11 AM   #2545
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We just missed you guys in Valemont, BC by a day or two when you came back from AK! Stayed in the same campground there (and enjoyed Three Summits beer downtown!)
Bill,

Irvin's RV Park in Valemount. I remember it well. Stunning scenery. How did you know we were there?

Bob
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:21 AM   #2546
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Incredible improvements

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islandboy,

According to the information I have your coach ride height should be 8-13/16 inches on the front and 9-1/16 on the rear. I assume since Monaco gave the measurements to the 1/16 of an inch they are serious about the setting. That said, it is not easy to obtain that kind of accuracy. Adjusting the valve and measuring the air bag to a 1/16 of an inch requires a lot of patience and a home made caliper. Another difficulty is that most folks do not have a level parking location to make the adjustments.

Up until this last year when we built a garage for the motorhome, we did not have a suitable location for adjusting the ride height. A couple of experiences are the reason I know how much ride height can affect ride quality. Since we did not have a suitable location for adjusting the ride height we took the coach to Buddy Gregg to have that done. That was about 10 years ago. We were new to the coach and wanted to make sure the ride height was within spec. A few years after that we took the coach to Josams in Orlando for a four wheel alignment. On leaving Josams the wife and I were amazed that the ride was significantly improved. We attributed this to the fact that they adjusted the ride height. Assume Buddy Gregg did not have the ride height correct.

About four years ago we started noticing a deterioration in the ride quality. I made the mistake of trying to adjust the ride height in the cul-de-sac near the house. That did not improve the ride and put the ride height out of spec. We went thru a couple of shock changes to improve the ride. Put on some stiff shocks which was a huge mistake and finally, on Van Williams recommendation, installed the Monroe shocks. Finally with the Monroe shocks and reduced air pressure in the front tires the ride was tolerable again. No more harsh banging on bumps. A few months ago, since we have a level pad in the garage, decided to check the ride height. It was off about an inch on the front. Adjusted it as close as I could to spec and then noticed the ride was further improved. The ride is now the best it has every been on our coach.

Here are two PDF files that might help you:

Bob
Your advice and that from everyone here has been invaluable. I adjusted the suspension using the specs you provided and all I can say is WOW. The ride is, by far, the best I have ever had it. Transitions are no problem nor are rough roads. It goes straight and holds a line in 15-20 mph gusty conditions. The front was low (maybe 1 1/2”) and the right rear was also low some (maybe 3/4”).
I have never had Koni shocks on a coach or the combination of shocks and watts you have, so I can only go by what I have read. I think these Bilsteins are really doing the job now. They smooth out the ride nicely now that the air bags are the correct height, and they really limit how much the coach leans in a stiff wind/gust. I let the wind move me over during a strong gust when nobody was around. The amount I had to move the wheel to correct it was a tiny fraction of what it would have been before the shock, tire and ride height changes.
At the moment, I am VERY happy with it and again, appreciate the advice provided in this forum! I will get it weighed in Perry GA this March, adjust the tires as appropriate and see how it does then, but I think it is doing great as it sits.

Thanks again,

Tim
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:50 AM   #2547
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Bill, I can't say I've ever switched the front tires side-for-side. I've never been able to think of any logical reason it would change anything. BUT, I believe things that guys like you say, and several others have said that was their solution. In my case, I put on new steer tires just before the Alaska trip, and it did not change the pull. When I get home next month, I will probably try that, anyway.

Still trying to think of a logical reason that making a huge change in trailing arm length on one side would not make a change (better or worse) in the pulling to one side. I wish my story could have a happy ending like Mike Zeuch's.

Thanks!
Read Happycarz's post #2497 and see if you can understand what he said. Then you'll know why changing front tires might make a difference. Not always, but many times it helps, and the price is right.

Don't want to get to critical here, but you don't seem to be real receptive to information from others that you are asking for. There's no doubt that you and I couldn't work on the same coach, our thinking is about 180* off. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

As for your second comment, I can't think of any reason canting the rear axle either way would create a front end pull either direction. If you do cant the rear axle, you'll get a nice "dog tracking" coach everyone will be commenting about.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:52 PM   #2548
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Alan, I understood Harry’s post. He and I are personally well-acquainted, and I am looking forward to finally seeing him again in a few days at Q. I installed one of the earliest Watts links I designed on his coach. As I told a later poster, I WILL switch tires, because I believe in real-world experiences, even when they do not seem to jive with theory. But with the pull existing identically both before and after changing tires, it’s a long shot.

Read “Mods/Upgrades to our 2003 Dynasty” #9 for a real-world case of this EXACT problem being solved by a sharp guy who thinks outside the box. Mike is “one of us”. #56 expresses what many of us feel about folks giving advice, or worse yet criticism, they aren’t qualified to give.

If I offended you, it was not intentional. If we meet over a couple of beers, I’m sure we would like one another. But you do not own a Roadmaster chassis vehicle. Perhaps you have owned one in the past. Regardless, that does not mean that any of the advice you offered was wrong. It was textbook. But if you were to read way back in this thread, you’ll see this thread represents a huge leap forward in curing the handling problems peculiar to the Roadmaster chassis, a problem Monaco themselves could not cure, nor could some of the greatest “experts” in the Monaco world. There is a monumental collection of real-world, knuckle-busting knowledge among the folks contributing to this thread. Several of these folks are near-geniuses in a real-world way.

Don’t know if you’ve ever been self-employed, but I have been for most of my life and I’m pushing 70. Something you learn early is if you want an employee to REALLY listen to you, try not to TELL him ANYTHING. ASK HIM QUESTIONS. Some of us old farts may even know something you don’t…and be eager to help you with any problem you have.

A very long way back in this thread a poster was very rude to some of our guys. Finally, he admitted he thought his condescension was justified, since his knowledge was so much greater than almost everyone else. He left the thread and was never heard from again. Of course, he contributed nothing to the eventual solution the rest of us dolts came up with together.

Alan, you seem like someone who might have something of value to contribute. You may even be able to help me with MY problem. But do show us the courtesy of not jumping into a mature thread composed of extremely knowledgeable and experienced gearheads, and start giving us textbook answers that every single one of us already knows. Show a bit of respect for those folks. Myron (“eloquent explanation”) understands front-end geometry as well as any of us…and is an incredible 12VDC troubleshooter. (Myron, you should be with us at Q. We are about 300 miles from El Paso, in a rest stop).

So, Alan, welcome to the thread.
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