Wandering, sway bars, alignment, ride height, oh my!!

[Timaz]

Does the S chassis need this stuff?

[nodine]

Originally Posted by Timaz

Does the S chassis need this stuff?

There will some advantage by adding the front Watts link but the S-chassis with the tag handles nicely if there are no problems and the tag pressure is set correctly. The S-chassis is very stiff and there is minimal flex in the frame and that also improve handling. Van installed a front Watts link on David Pratts 2005 Executive and Dave noticed the difference as he was leaving his driveway. Zmotorsports who made the previous post has an S-chassis with the tag and he noticed the improvement by adding the front Watts link.

Bob

[Timaz]

I don't have a tag axle. What does that change in this case?

[zmotorsports]

Originally Posted by Timaz

Does the S chassis need this stuff?

Like Bob mentioned, I built one for my 2003 Dynasty on the S-Series chassis and although not as drastic of an improvement that non-tag coaches have seen, there was definitely a noticeable improvement. Mine handled pretty decent before, especially after correcting my thrust angle but I've had my Watts link installed on the coach for 4+ years now (approx. 30k miles) and 650-mile days are a pleasure and nowhere near the fatigue as before. One hand driving even in moderate crosswinds and/or semi trucks passing is common place. Where I noticed the greatest improvement was in those long constant radius curves. Now I no longer have to continue to alter the steering wheel input once I've entered the curve. I can enter into a long curve and pretty much hold the wheel at a certain point and no further input is required as it will hold that line throughout the curve.

[Timaz]

I also have the safe T Plus Steering on my coach...will it still improve over that?

[nodine]

Originally Posted by Timaz

I also have the safe T Plus Steering on my coach...will it still improve over that?

Absolutely! The Safe-T-Plus and BlueOx TruCenter only address the symptom and not the problem. Although the Safe-T-Plus made your driving task less fatiguing it did not correct the problem and once the Watts link is installed you could remove it without any degradation in the handling of the coach. Years before the Watts link I installed a BlueOx TruCenter on our coach because of my fear of a front tire blowout. I was pleasantly surprised that it also reduced driver fatigue.

The BlueOx TruCenter can change the center position to mitigate constant crosswind force and that part of the TruCenter failed not long after we installed it. We sent it back to the factory for repair under warranty but it soon failed again. Seems water is always entering the solenoid area and causing it to rust. After installing the Watts link we noticed that removing the TruCenter made no difference in the handling of the coach bet we decided to leave it on for front tire blowout assistance.

We stopped by the BlueOx factory on the way back from Alaska in 2016 and they again repaired it. We have twice had coach handling degradation after the Watts link was installed. The first time it was because the weld on the pivot pin broke and we installed one of Mike Hughes front Watts links to replace ours. Our previous Watts link was the original beta test unit and we knew that Mike had significantly improved the strength of the pivot pin.

Early in 2019 we again noticed a degradation in handling and checked both front and rear Watts links, the sway bars, crossbars, and the TRW and could not find a problem. Also checked the tires and front bearings. We were getting ready to travel up to the MS-219 Maintenance Session and were thinking about having the TruCenter repaired again. We took the unit off to remind us again if it helped with handling and maybe we would just rely on the Tyron bands for front tire blowout and ditch the TruCenter altogether. As soon as we left the house we could tell the coach was back to the superb handling we had become accustom to.

Bottom line is the TruCenter and its mounts are in my barn awaiting a trip to the scrap metal pile at the county dump. I will never install such a device on my front steering again. My conclusion is the TruCenter developed an internal problem that significantly increased the force required to move the piston and that force was great enough to require excessive steering wheel input before the front wheels responded to a steering input. That resulted in a latency in steering from the drivers seat.

Bob

[mydogmax]

I have an 8S chassis, no tag! front and rear watts links, and a steering stabilizer.

I am the third owner, I don't know how the second owner drove this, it wandered all over the road like you were a drunk driver! I intstalled them myself not hard to do, and it made it almost a pleasure to drive, except the stabilizer where it centers the steering wheel while you are steering into a cross wind it wants to center the steering wheel so it adds pressure to the control of the steering wheel.

[AllenIN]

I finally got my Monaco Watts Link installed a couple of weeks ago after a bit of a false start. The weather in our current location has been pretty bad, so it took some time to get a good weather day to crawl under the coach to install it. It took about 2 minutes to realize my snowflake was, of course, a little different. The supplied 1 1/2" C-channels that bolt through the forward bay uprights were too narrow. My uprights were a hair over 3" wide.

As Mike was both getting ready for eye surgery and headed to Quartzsite, I had the option of returning the kit for a refund, or working out the solution on my own.

In the end, I had new C-channels made by a local shop that were 3.100" wide (inside measurement), but kept both the bolt spacing and locations the same as the 1.5" version that came with the kit. After installing the new C-channels, everything else in the kit bolted up exactly as expected.

Two weeks after the install, I finally took the coach out for a refuel and a test run.

A lot of folks have questioned the need or value of adding a front Watts Link to a tag axle RR10S coach. All I can say is WOW!

I immediately noticed a significant difference, even at low speeds. The squishy body-roll was gone as I turned out of the drive. The narrow, undulating back road I was on used to take every bit of my focus and constant corrections. This undulating road also used to juggle and re-arrange everything in the cabinets. It was a night-and-day difference right out of the gate and my wife noticed the improvements right away too.

I spent two hours on a mix of highway and secondary roads and it really was like driving a totally different coach. No more constant corrections on the highway or back roads, the swaying and body-roll was gone - so much so that none of the stuff in the cabinets shifted or re-arranged themselves like it did before. Turning into a corner or long sweeping turn on a ramp was confidence inspiring. Highway driving was a joy, easily done with one hand. Passing trucks used to take focus, as I was micro-correcting the whole time to maintain spacing. Now it doesn't even register on my radar.

So, I can say that a Watts Link on a tag axle coach CAN make a huge difference in handling and drive-ability. I am not affiliated in any way and I paid full price for my kit. I am not too proud to tell someone I wasted my money on something, but this was easily the best investment I have made in my coach.

[nodine]

Originally Posted by AllenIN

I finally got my Monaco Watts Link installed a couple of weeks ago after a bit of a false start. The weather in our current location has been pretty bad, so it took some time to get a good weather day to crawl under the coach to install it. It took about 2 minutes to realize my snowflake was, of course, a little different. The supplied 1 1/2" C-channels that bolt through the forward bay uprights were too narrow. My uprights were a hair over 3" wide.

As Mike was both getting ready for eye surgery and headed to Quartzsite, I had the option of returning the kit for a refund, or working out the solution on my own.

In the end, I had new C-channels made by a local shop that were 3.100" wide (inside measurement), but kept both the bolt spacing and locations the same as the 1.5" version that came with the kit. After installing the new C-channels, everything else in the kit bolted up exactly as expected.

Two weeks after the install, I finally took the coach out for a refuel and a test run.

A lot of folks have questioned the need or value of adding a front Watts Link to a tag axle RR10S coach. All I can say is WOW!

I immediately noticed a significant difference, even at low speeds. The squishy body-roll was gone as I turned out of the drive. The narrow, undulating back road I was on used to take every bit of my focus and constant corrections. This undulating road also used to juggle and re-arrange everything in the cabinets. It was a night-and-day difference right out of the gate and my wife noticed the improvements right away too.

I spent two hours on a mix of highway and secondary roads and it really was like driving a totally different coach. No more constant corrections on the highway or back roads, the swaying and body-roll was gone - so much so that none of the stuff in the cabinets shifted or re-arranged themselves like it did before. Turning into a corner or long sweeping turn on a ramp was confidence inspiring. Highway driving was a joy, easily done with one hand. Passing trucks used to take focus, as I was micro-correcting the whole time to maintain spacing. Now it doesn't even register on my radar.

So, I can say that a Watts Link on a tag axle coach CAN make a huge difference in handling and drive-ability. I am not affiliated in any way and I paid full price for my kit. I am not too proud to tell someone I wasted my money on something, but this was easily the best investment I have made in my coach.

Fantastic Allen. Thanks for posting back to the thread to let us know how things turned out. You point out a side benefit of the Watts link that is often overlooked and that is it lowers the center of gravity of he coach and gives the sensation of reduced body roll. Its like going from a van to a sports car.

Bob

[hypoxia]

For those that have installed the Watts Link on a coach without a front jack, can you describe the modification? I figure it has to be mounted through the front cargo compartment and am wondering about the size of a backing plate and other considerations? My S Series needs a Watts Link, it does not have jacks and does have the front mounted A/C condenser.

[AllenIN]

Originally Posted by hypoxia

For those that have installed the Watts Link on a coach without a front jack, can you describe the modification? I figure it has to be mounted through the front cargo compartment and am wondering about the size of a backing plate and other considerations? My S Series needs a Watts Link, it does not have jacks and does have the front mounted A/C condenser.

I don't see your coach listed as having a kit on the moncowatts website. That does not necessarily mean that one of the other kits wouldn't work, just that it hasn't been tested to fit. You'd need to get with Mike Hughes about that, and I don't want to speak out of turn.

As far as the install, there isn't a mounting plate behind the cargo compartment. It does mount to the forward cargo bulkhead, but by bolting C-channels over/through the existing bracing. If you take a look at their website and install instructions, you'll see what I mean. I did it by myself, but the components are heavy and a helper would have been better. (It was about a 20 cussword install by myself, would have been a 5 cussword install with help). It's not hard to install, just a bit awkward in the tight space. After getting new C-channels made to fit my oddball, it took about 2 hours to install. My Dynasty is air leveling only, but no AC condenser in the way either. I hope that helps answer your question, at least to a degree.

[hypoxia]

Originally Posted by AllenIN

In the end, I had new C-channels made by a local shop that were 3.100" wide (inside measurement), but kept both the bolt spacing and locations the same as the 1.5" version that came with the kit. After installing the new C-channels, everything else in the kit bolted up exactly as expected.

I will need to make the same 3.1" channels. Do you have the dimensions of what you made? I had Mike look at the coach a few years ago but that was prior to him building that kit for air only chassis. His drawing for the Dynasty shows the diagonal square tubing being attached to the lower horizontal tubing where mine is attached to the vertical tubing a couple of inches above the top of the lower horizontal tubing.

I don't think the A/C condenser is a factor as far as fitting the Watts link in although it does make a tighter work area.

[AllenIN]

Originally Posted by hypoxia

I will need to make the same 3.1" channels. Do you have the dimensions of what you made? I had Mike look at the coach a few years ago but that was prior to him building that kit for air only chassis. His drawing for the Dynasty shows the diagonal square tubing being attached to the lower horizontal tubing where mine is attached to the vertical tubing a couple of inches above the top of the lower horizontal tubing.

I don't think the A/C condenser is a factor as far as fitting the Watts link in although it does make a tighter work area.

I do have a drawing. PM me with an email address and I'll shoot them to you.

[hypoxia]

Originally Posted by AllenIN

I do have a drawing. PM me with an email address and I'll shoot them to you.

Thanks for your help and the drawings Allen. I just ordered the Watts link kit and I suppose mine may be the first S Series Signature to try it out.