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Old 05-29-2012, 08:11 PM   #43
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crah, was looking for reference to those alignment specs they used. Ran across this, thought it an interesting read - if you haven't already seen it?

Auto Repair and Auto Maintenance Articles

Here's that alignment reference for the Chev P30/32 I was thinking of. It's close to what your shop used, but maybe not exact. I guess I'm surprised by how close they are though?

http://www.hendersonslineup.com/P303...ions_10-06.pdf
-Al
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:28 PM   #44
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Sorry crah I didn't notice the info of your coach. deSanford
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:50 PM   #45
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Crah,

When you get a chance take a look at the attachment. Probably nothing but worth a look.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ridesway.pdf (769.3 KB, 314 views)
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Old 05-29-2012, 10:39 PM   #46
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So I have this little gem of a book called "engineer in your pocket" written by one of the world's greatest race mechanics, Carroll Smith. You look up cause and it gives you effect, and vice versa. Here's what 'ol Carroll says about straight line instability:

In general:
1) excessive rear wheel toe out - (on a MH this is unlikely unless the axle housing is bent, but that is how you put toe-in in a solid axle car - you bend the housing).

2) Lack of rear downforce or overwhelming preponderance of front download - (again, not relevant on a MH, where the opposite is more likely, and amplified by weathervaning. On a race car too much front grip destabilizes the rear, obviously not a problem with a diesel pusher).

3) Wild amount of toe in or toe out - now we are getting somewhere.

4) Loose or broken chassis member or suspension link mounting point - probably the most likely.

5) Dead shock absorber - again, highly likely. Modern shocks fail in bump. You can do the fender bounce test and they will seem fine. Take 'em off and as soon as the top bolt comes off the rod falls straight into the body with almost no resistance.

Under hard acceleration:

1) deflection steer from rear chassis/suspension member or mounting point (which will cause movement every time you come on and off the throttle)

2) dead shock absorber

3) wildly uneven corner weights

Vehicle darts over bumps:

1) excessive ackerman steering geometry

2) excessive toe in or toe out

3) uneven front castor settings

4) dead shock absorber

5) wildly uneven corner weights

6) front ARB way too stiff

Under braking the uneven corner weights, bad shock, or toe in/out issues are greatly magnified.

A lot of advice on this matter is focused on SECONDARY EFFECTS. You have to focus on the primary contributors first. It's all physics to start. MHs have a high CG. Any movement of that CG acts like a lever through the front and rear roll centers. Underdamped components will amplify. One thing not considered in this thread or any other I've seen regarding wandering is that the posters always claim the vehicle wanders "on straight highway" or something similar. It may be straight, but very rarely in this country is the road actually smooth, and if it is, notice how long it takes your coach to stop porpoising just from getting on and off the throttle. Throttle response and surface undulations react asymmetrically through the chassis components and steer the coach around. Sometimes this is actually bump steer, and sometimes not (bump steer is change of toe in bump or droop) Throw in a little wind and it becomes tougher to figure out just what the coach is doing.

Try to find a old fashioned single strip county airport. Take the airport manager a case of beer. See if he'll let you come out at 2am and drive back and forth to figure out just when things are working and when they are going all wrong. The surface will be consistent and you can run in both directions - you'll be surprised how much you can learn and sort from that kind of test.
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Old 05-29-2012, 11:41 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by crah View Post
Jimkate

I'm not giving up yet and truly understand your frustration.
I understand. But before you spend a lot of money and do a bunch of work and/or make some serious changes, let me know what you're thinking of doing.

I've probably done it already, to no avail.
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Old 05-29-2012, 11:49 PM   #48
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"small comfort" aside I would like to know what Navastar Monaco is going to do to help crah. deSanford
They are going to do the same thing for Crah that they have always done for anyone with this wandering problem.

Absolutely nothing.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:07 AM   #49
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crah, was looking for reference to those alignment specs they used. Ran across this, thought it an interesting read - if you haven't already seen it?

Auto Repair and Auto Maintenance Articles

Here's that alignment reference for the Chev P30/32 I was thinking of. It's close to what your shop used, but maybe not exact. I guess I'm surprised by how close they are though?

http://www.hendersonslineup.com/P303...ions_10-06.pdf
-Al
Thanks for the links ahicks. I've seen the first link, and that was the first time I've seen the specs on the P30. Uploading my specs shortly.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:12 AM   #50
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Crah,

When you get a chance take a look at the attachment. Probably nothing but worth a look.
Thanks greystroke. I already installed those sway bars that were custom made for my chassis. Source Engineering knows me well already and aware I continue to have my wandering problems.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:19 AM   #51
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Let's see if this works.

Before and after alignment.


Original Monaco spec.


Enjoy the reading.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:47 AM   #52
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Thanks greystroke. I already installed those sway bars that were custom made for my chassis. Source Engineering knows me well already and aware I continue to have my wandering problems.
I missed the fact that you have tried sway bars. I was considering sway bars. Now I won't bother.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:57 AM   #53
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crah,

Me again. Don't know where your holding and fresh water tanks are, but suspect they are near the rear. Try filling all the tanks with water and drive to see how that affects the wander(more or less). That will give you a clue as to if the wander is related to not enough weight on the front or a weight distribution problem.

Good luck,

Bob
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:55 PM   #54
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So just out of a morbid curiosity, what kind of tires are you considering?
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:22 PM   #55
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crah,

Me again. Don't know where your holding and fresh water tanks are, but suspect they are near the rear. Try filling all the tanks with water and drive to see how that affects the wander(more or less). That will give you a clue as to if the wander is related to not enough weight on the front or a weight distribution problem.

Good luck,

Bob
Hi Bob,

My gray, and black tanks are stacked on top of the fresh water tank right in front of the rear axle. I've tried them empty and full with no difference. I have not tried with fresh water full and the waste tanks full though. I guess that would add +- another 800 pounds or so if I had the waste tanks completely full with water. I'll give it a shot.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:26 PM   #56
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So just out of a morbid curiosity, what kind of tires are you considering?
ahicks,

I've priced out the Bridgestone R260F in size 11R and the Firestone FS560 in size 11R, as well as a set of Yokahama's. The tire dealer didn't have too many choices. I called around a bunch of places but didn't have much luck, but I don't think I was asking the right questions. I was asking for tires around the size of 295/80/22.5 or anything similar size. Most places only carry 11r/12r. The 11R seem close to the size I'm looking for. I'm leaning towards the bridestones, but I would only replace the steer tires only at this point. Not sure if I will go through with it just yet though.
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