Wandering, sway bars, alignment, ride height, oh my!!

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by Happycarz

I few more pictures of my TRW box, from the front.

Attachment 65086

Attachment 65085

Thanks Harry,

The mount pictures really help !

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Craig,

If the TRW boxes come in RH and LH, one would think you could find the opposite hand TRW from what Monaco used and mount it similar to the Sheppard.

Have you searched the TRW site to see what is offered as OE? I can’t look until later tonight.

Another thought--the Sheppard Pittman arm faces outward, and the TRW faces inward. The Sheppard mounting plate appears to be much closer to the center of the coach. Suppose we made an adapter plate with standoffs? It would bolt (or weld) to your existing plate, with the Pittman arm between the two plates. ???

What at first glance might be a problem, could turn out making this simpler…I’m hopin’.

Another thing I notice from your pix--unless it is an optical illusion, your steering shaft extending through the coach floor is a lot straighter (more nearly a straight line) from your steering wheel to the gear box. That does not matter a great deal, but it's just an observation.

Van,

You just about hit all the things I have been thinking of the last two days of picture taking and crawling under coaches.

The first salvage yard was no help and I am off to the other yard this morning and a truck repair shop. I am going to call a TRW dealer here in town, if I can find one after morning coffee, If not I am going to call TRW and give them Harry's or Your box numbers and see if they make one that matches those with the output shaft facing outboard.


I like your idea of an adapter plate. I had this vision of being under the coach with a plasma cutter for an extended period. The older coaches I have pictures of and now Harry's coach…Thanks again Harry…seem to have the boxes mounted with the square tubing from the frame and maybe just one piece of plate welded in. If it was just square tubing that would make the job a little easier….hint hint for anyone watching this.

I have new pictures of about a DOZEN coaches here in town and NONE of one with a TRW box. NO wonder no one is posting pictures of their TRW set up, I have not been able to find one coach in town yet with a TRW.

The one thing I have noticed on the Sheppard coaches is the steering column shaft is almost straight from the floor until it enters the steering box, like you said not a big deal to move it a little if needed.

I am hoping all the information I am gathering is going to help others who are even THINKING about this swap.

[CrazyKnight]

The "answer" from TRW is,

Craig,

"TRW cannot recommend it as it strays from the original vehicle designed application. If steering system fails and if vehicle looses steering assist which results in an incident, liability could be incurred. We recommend contacting the vehicle OEM Application Engineering Deptartment as we cannot provide engineering assistance."

I only asked if they made a TRW TAS65 187A with a shaft that faced outboard.

Off to the big steering box repair facility I found in Atlanta.

I almost hate the fact that Monaco used the Sheppard box, but hey that is just me.
For those of you that have VERY little play in your Sheppard box consider yourself lucky, I just happen to have a VERY loose one.

Keeping the faith !

[CrazyKnight]

Well we MIGHT just have a winner. I just got back from the yard. I am going to research the specs on the TRW TAS65 104A and see if matches the Sheppard M100.

$250 to purchase and then a rebuild if it works out. FINGER CROSSED !

[deSanford]

I can even see the adjustment screw. Was the Sheppard cheaper? deSanford PS I also have the "Sheppard" on my 2011 Navistar Monaco. If it wonders because it is loose I can't tell as I have so many devices masking the old steering feeling.

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by deSanford

I can even see the adjustment screw. Was the Sheppard cheaper? deSanford PS I also have the "Sheppard" on my 2011 Navistar Monaco. If it wonders because it is loose I can't tell as I have so many devices masking the old steering feeling.

deSanford,

The adjustment screw in in the last picture in the middle, the one with the slot in it. I called Monaco today to get the Sheppard info from my build sheet, the tech did say they have had a few "inquiries" on the Sheppard boxes.

I had to dig through the pile in picture 1. I have the phone number of the Weller Truck Parts steering box guru and will call him in the morning.

Time for a cold one !

[deSanford]

I have a question Craig......when you turn your steering wheel and the shaft going into the Sheppard turns does the wheels NOT turn right away? deSanford

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by deSanford

I have a question Craig......when you turn your steering wheel and the shaft going into the Sheppard turns does the wheels NOT turn right away? deSanford

desanford,

Did you read the TEST I performed. When you turn the wheel the pitman arm, the big arm you see in all the above pictures does not move, I took the measurements at the hole you see in the arm, the lower part…until I move the wheel 7/8 of an inch in each direction. So if you are touching the left stop and need to turn right…7/8 plus 7/8 and then response. SUCKS !

Sheppard has allowable, in spec, non motion. The luck of the draw determines if you have a Sheppard with .5 inch, so only 1/4 inch each direction,we WOULD NOT even be on THIS SUBJECT if that was my case, or you could get one with 1 1/2 inch and drive down the road in this left to right wandering motion. ALL within "spec"

This might just be an exercise in futility but one can hope. I have talked with a great shop in town just in case and they can rebuild my Sheppard for $550 and shim it to ALMOST no play, tech thinks less than 1/8 total. 1/16 each direction. This would be the LEAST I would do in MY CASE, best I would do is trade my Sheppard for a TRW and have only thousands of an inch "play".

Putting money into my Sheppard is not a good thought, think about it, it is NEW only 28K miles on it and it needs $550. Getting a new one does no good because of the in spec non motion, who knows what you would get out of the box.

Thanks for reading my "situation" EVERYONE !
Time for more coffee and a phone call to the steering box whisperer.

[deSanford]

How much to purchase a new TRW or ball park figure to buy a "used" TRW and overhaul it? Is it possible to find a U-Tube video on how to shim a Sheppard? deSanford

[Vanwill]

Craig, you are doing everything exactly right. Couldn't do a better job of it myself. Let me know if I can help.

I can say this--all the pix are a great help. Thanks to all who furnished them.

But once we decide this is doable, there is not likely to be any substitute for having the TRW gear in hand and holding it up there to see how it fits "in the flesh". When you get to that point, Craig, lets get together on some kind of fixture to make it easier for you to position that heavy bugger up there to look at. It would be great if it turned out that some simple bolt-on adapter plate would work.

Based on my experience with those TRW/Saginaw type gears, as long as no water has gotten into one, you may not need to rebuild it. They go hundreds of thousands of miles without problems.

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Craig, you are doing everything exactly right. Couldn't do a better job of it myself. Let me know if I can help.

I can say this--all the pix are a great help. Thanks to all who furnished them.

But once we decide this is doable, there is not likely to be any substitute for having the TRW gear in hand and holding it up there to see how it fits "in the flesh". When you get to that point, Craig, lets get together on some kind of fixture to make it easier for you to position that heavy bugger up there to look at. It would be great if it turned out that some simple bolt-on adapter plate would work.

Based on my experience with those TRW/Saginaw type gears, as long as no water has gotten into one, you may not need to rebuild it. They go hundreds of thousands of miles without problems.

Van,

I got all my box numbers from Monaco and then last night had an idea, I will go back to the yard and see if I can find a Sheppard that matches mine and put the two boxes side by side and STARE and measure.

I am trying to find spec sheets on both, may have to call the manufactures, not much so far on the web.

I TOTALLY agree with box in hand for a fit up using some kind of jig, those darn things are way to HEAVY to just hold up and stare. You and I can get together on that, even if my coach pulls up to your place,

The TRW boxes I found, the yard has three that I located of the same numbers, all still had fluid in them an were laying on their sides and the fluid looked very clean. I would grab the best of the three and move forward.

[deSanford]

Please let us know the # of the TRW Box that might work. deSanford

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by deSanford

How much to purchase a new TRW or ball park figure to buy a "used" TRW and overhaul it? Is it possible to find a U-Tube video on how to shim a Sheppard? deSanford

desanford,

Hey bud, I think my post #806 sounded a bit assertive towards you, I did not mean it to sound that way AT ALL. sorry ! My frustration lies with my POS Box, not ANYONE here. You ALL have been a great help and inspiration.

The TRW box I have found, I will be putting the two together on the ground in the morning, is the TRW TAS65 104 A. I have found a truck parts yard in Atlanta that will sell me the used box which looks in very good shape for $250. I would reseal it maybe. A rebuild is $550. That being said Wellen Truck Parts, a national truck parts rebuilder will sell me a rebuilt TRW for about the same price, I would try and turn in the Sheppard box for a core.

I would not shim a Sheppard myself. I think it would be money well spent to have Red Head on the West coast or Wellen here in Atlanta do that work, people on this forum have had good results with that route.

A steering box swap is no small undertaking. There is no direct cross reference between TRW and Sheppard numbers and the TRW box number I am providing is the first one that is close. We should find out in the coming week or weeks if it will fit.

Van and I have a plan…..we will be in his shop, it is better than my own, and be working together on my coach and in that process we hope to come up with a fix for other coaches also.

Again ALL, this is BEST CASE scenario, so far it looks REALLY good and VERY possible. Thanks Van again for the help and to all of you for information and pictures and putting up with me posting away.

Cheers,

[CrazyKnight]

On a GREAT note, the UPS guy dropped of my cross bar parts !!!!! YAHOO !!! Build my plates and a little welding. SWEET !!!