RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Monaco Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-07-2014, 07:01 PM   #897
Senior Member
 
CrazyKnight's Avatar


 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 697
Time to make some cross braces, it seems I have some time on my hands. Will keep you all posted. Read my TRW post for the update. BEER TIME !!
__________________

__________________
Craig and Angie
2011 Monaco Knight 36 PFT
TRW steering gear, Front and Rear Watts Link's Rear X bars, Koni FSD's, CCV's, ATRO Bushings
CrazyKnight is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-07-2014, 08:34 PM   #898
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by crah View Post
Thanks for all the suggestions. I did end up calling Monaco, and they said the part is around $800 before shippin and would have to be specially made. The original company was Douglas Auto Tech, and an email to them stated I need to buy it from Monaco. Hard to swallow the price tag on this. I'm wondering if I could swap it out with a Spicer. I see those going for around $200 and looks better made. Not sure what I will do yet.
Craig, do the "Craig French" thing--keep researching it. I cannot imagine a slip joint being worth $800 any more than a drag link (bent type) costing $1400+.
__________________

__________________
Van W 2000 Dynasty 36, pulling one Harley
Southeastern NC
Vanwill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 12:13 AM   #899
Senior Member
 
crah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanwill View Post

Craig, do the "Craig French" thing--keep researching it. I cannot imagine a slip joint being worth $800 any more than a drag link (bent type) costing $1400+.
Van I agree. The price is quite high for what it is. And I'm not sure I really want the OEM shaft. Looks like Monaco went to a more robust type in the later years and the earlier s series chassis. I talked to a local spicer distributor and they need to see what I have and they can do a search for something similar. Being it a simple driveline type shaft, I'm assuming any steering shaft the same length as what I have with same size u joints on both sides should work. I was thinking about your clamp idea as well. Not too worried about the slip joint function going away as it is junk already. Might try to clamp it to see what type of handling improvements I get first before delving into a more permanent fix.
__________________
Craig 2003 Holiday Rambler Scepter 36PST
RR8S 350 Cummins ISC with Banks
2011 Buick Enclave Towed with Readybrute
crah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 06:54 AM   #900
Senior Member
 
CrazyKnight's Avatar


 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 697
Quote:
Originally Posted by crah View Post
Van I agree. The price is quite high for what it is. And I'm not sure I really want the OEM shaft. Looks like Monaco went to a more robust type in the later years and the earlier s series chassis. I talked to a local spicer distributor and they need to see what I have and they can do a search for something similar. Being it a simple driveline type shaft, I'm assuming any steering shaft the same length as what I have with same size u joints on both sides should work. I was thinking about your clamp idea as well. Not too worried about the slip joint function going away as it is junk already. Might try to clamp it to see what type of handling improvements I get first before delving into a more permanent fix.
Crah,

$800 that is an AIRPLANE parts price :-)

There has got to be a better replacement out there for less money or at least one can hope :-).
I tried the clamp idea in an old truck once. I would get a good NAPA band clamp if you can find one that small. They provide more pressure and it is distributed evenly around the unit.

This is the best picture of what mine looks likes, I do not know if it helps at all.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040535.jpg
Views:	64
Size:	311.9 KB
ID:	67198  
__________________
Craig and Angie
2011 Monaco Knight 36 PFT
TRW steering gear, Front and Rear Watts Link's Rear X bars, Koni FSD's, CCV's, ATRO Bushings
CrazyKnight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 08:37 AM   #901
Senior Member
 
Happycarz's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,766
Food for thought. The slip shaft is incorporated to compensate for the length difference from model to model, or even from coach to coach during manufacturing/installation. Once the steering shaft/column is installed, the slip yoke is no longer in play.

On mine, I see no clean portion of the shaft where it would show that it is constantly sliding up and down. Quite a bit different from what one would see on the driveshaft, as it lengthens and shortens, creating a visible working area.

You could measure from the far end of each u-joint while it is in place, then remove the shaft assembly, u-joints included, and have a solid shaft made to that overall length, using your existing u-joints. You might have to loosen the steering box to tilt down enough to reinstall shaft.

Just another way of looking at it.
__________________
Harry

2008 Monaco Camelot 40' PDQ
Happycarz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 09:17 AM   #902
RVM#87 / Senior Member
 
DieselTech39's Avatar


 
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Ham Lake, MN
Posts: 3,038
Do Not Clamp the Slip Joint!

Craig, Craig and Harry.

The slip joint is designed to allow movement between the frame mounted steering gear and the dash mounted steering column. Clamping it or making a solid style shaft WILL cause additional problems. Could be in the steering column, dash or causing the input shaft seal on the steering gear to fail. While it may appear there is no movement between the frame and the body, believe me there is when you are in motion and hitting bumps and uneven egresses. Maybe ever so slight, but still movement.

I understand the price is way out of line for the one from the manufacturer. Again I suggest/urge you follow up with Spicer giving them the dimensions and/or check with a local driveline repair shop. There may be numbers stamped or cast into the different parts which may allow them to find just the slip portion of the shaft.

Is there any play/slop in the ujoints at each end of the shaft? If there is , replacing them may take up some of the play. If they haven't been lubed on a regular basis this could be the case.

Just trying to help and I want to be sure you are safe.
__________________
Have a wonderful day!
Ken (RVM 87)
FT DP Wanna B The journey is the destination!
Retired & perfecting procrastination!
DieselTech39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 12:33 PM   #903
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,261
Craig H--Ken is likely correct about needing that small amount of collapse/expand on the shaft during normal driving--it makes sense. On a lot of cars, that function is possibly accomplished by the flexible joint between the steering column and the steering gear.

But I think there is a good possibility that you can tighten the slip joint without rendering it solid using those two-piece clamp collars--just permanently deforming it enough by squeezing it together to reduce the clearance, then remove the collar. Or if it is one of those cross-shaped devices, by flattening the four protrusions. If I had it in my shop, I feel certain I could repair it, especially since, as Ken said, it's not something that is constantly moving through a long distance. The basic idea is to uniformly deform that sheet-metal assembly enough to reduce the clearance. For $800, one can be quite creative!

I'm in a rush to get my Harley ready for my cross-country ride, and I'm leaving this Friday. I'll be back in 2-3 weeks, and if you've not found a solution, I'll work with you on it.
__________________
Van W 2000 Dynasty 36, pulling one Harley
Southeastern NC
Vanwill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 01:11 PM   #904
RVM#87 / Senior Member
 
DieselTech39's Avatar


 
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Ham Lake, MN
Posts: 3,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanwill View Post
The basic idea is to uniformly deform that sheet-metal assembly enough to reduce the clearance.
Van, My experience is that the outer part/socket of the assembly is cast. The only part of the assembly that is sheet metal is the dust seal retainer that threads on the end of the socket portion. Deforming the cast will be quite a feat IMO.

Craig lets step back just a minute. Please bear with me if you have performed this in your diagnosis already, but I think it is important to make sure that it is in fact the slip joint.

This will require two people. Hold the steering gear input end of the assembly and have an assistant (DW will work) move the steering wheel back and forth slowly to take up the play each way without moving the input end of the assembly. While holding the input assembly actually put your finger at each ujoint area, between the bosses that hold the ujoint caps in the assembly. If those move against each other it means the ujoint needs replacing. Do the same for the shaft and socket. This will help you to determine which parts of the assembly need repair.

If there is movement in the ujoints replacing them will tighten the play more than you realize. Remember you reported the steering wheel radius and amount of movement was about 1.5". The amount of movement in the ujoint which has a radius of 1" or less doesn't require much wear to produce that effect at the steering wheel.

If the only play noted is between the shaft and socket of the assembly you are back to where you are right now.
__________________
Have a wonderful day!
Ken (RVM 87)
FT DP Wanna B The journey is the destination!
Retired & perfecting procrastination!
DieselTech39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 01:15 PM   #905
Senior Member
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Signal Hill, California
Posts: 3,313
I have a question ..........today when I took the MH out of storage I make some semi hard turns and went over some rough asphalt to exit the yard. I think the MH with Vans-T-Bars has dampened the rock and roll I experience. Like exiting a drive way etc. Anyone else experience this? deSanford
__________________
Sanford, Linda & R cats: Molly, Levi, Cody
2011 Monaco by Navistar RV
Good Sam Life Member Good Sam Hams Chapter
deSanford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 01:36 PM   #906
Senior Member
 
Happycarz's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,766
DeSanford, you are correct. Same with mine..
__________________
Harry

2008 Monaco Camelot 40' PDQ
Happycarz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 01:43 PM   #907
Senior Member
 
crah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselTech39 View Post

Van, My experience is that the outer part/socket of the assembly is cast. The only part of the assembly that is sheet metal is the dust seal retainer that threads on the end of the socket portion. Deforming the cast will be quite a feat IMO.

Craig lets step back just a minute. Please bear with me if you have performed this in your diagnosis already, but I think it is important to make sure that it is in fact the slip joint.

This will require two people. Hold the steering gear input end of the assembly and have an assistant (DW will work) move the steering wheel back and forth slowly to take up the play each way without moving the input end of the assembly. While holding the input assembly actually put your finger at each ujoint area, between the bosses that hold the ujoint caps in the assembly. If those move against each other it means the ujoint needs replacing. Do the same for the shaft and socket. This will help you to determine which parts of the assembly need repair.

If there is movement in the ujoints replacing them will tighten the play more than you realize. Remember you reported the steering wheel radius and amount of movement was about 1.5". The amount of movement in the ujoint which has a radius of 1" or less doesn't require much wear to produce that effect at the steering wheel.

If the only play noted is between the shaft and socket of the assembly you are back to where you are right now.
You assessment above is crucial in knowing if there is true play. I know I've played with my steering plenty to see how much true play there is. Looking out the window while turning the sterring wheel. I'm sure plenty of member have done this. As for a helper, I guess it all depends on how much you trust your helper. It's like bleeding brakes. You never are quite certain if your helper pushed down the pedal at the right time lol.

As for my test, it is play at the slip joint only. No play at the ujoints. While I was replacing the flooring, there was an oversize hole where the steering shaft went through the floor. I could see clearly down to the ground because my dust boot from below was folded up and shrank over the wheels. While turning my steering wheel, I could clearly see the larger diameter shaft moving while the smaller shaft stayed stationary. Not sure if I would have seen that if working with a helper blindly. My oversize hole was large enough that I could see the slip joint from the top. My pictures that I posted before was with the new flooring and foam seal I installed.

Hope that makes sense.

Van, I think a collar can be made on mine if I sent it to your shop. It's hard to tell from my pictures but my lower shaft is 3/4 inch solid bar shaped like a hexagon. It fits a 3/4 inch box wrench perfectly. If a tapered 2 piece collar was made to attach to the larger diameter tube and the bottom of that collar was shaped like a open hexagon, it would capture the lower bar but still giving it the up and down motion.

The 800 for the original bar rather expensive is not a huge deal to me. I am getting conflicting information from the vendors. Monaco actually gave me two vendors, and one of them stated it is definitely not made anymore and it is an obsolete Volvo part. The other vendor said they sell to Monaco only but monaco said one of the parts are obsolete. There are three part numbers and I didn't gain confidence what part they were talking about. I got this coach at 30000 miles and it was already like this. If the original part wore out that fast, I don't want an exact replacement.
__________________
Craig 2003 Holiday Rambler Scepter 36PST
RR8S 350 Cummins ISC with Banks
2011 Buick Enclave Towed with Readybrute
crah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 03:38 PM   #908
RVM#87 / Senior Member
 
DieselTech39's Avatar


 
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Ham Lake, MN
Posts: 3,038
Craig,

Good to know that you have determined the worn part is the slip joint. My guess is that it had very little lubrication?? A new part should not have any play in it, and my guess it would last much longer than the 30,000 miles the original had on it if kept lubricated. JMHO

My experience with Ford E-350, Oshkosh and Freightliner chassis with similar slip joints, some with over 300,000 miles on them, was that with proper lubrication they would seldom develop a lot of play in that slip joint area. More so the ujoints. Fords more prone to wear than Oshkosh and Freightliner, and in my estimation due to the fact the Ford outer socket was shorter than those on Oshkosh and Freightliner. However on the ones that weren't lubricated regularly on any of them showed early wear.
__________________
Have a wonderful day!
Ken (RVM 87)
FT DP Wanna B The journey is the destination!
Retired & perfecting procrastination!
DieselTech39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 04:09 PM   #909
Senior Member
 
crah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselTech39 View Post
Craig,

Good to know that you have determined the worn part is the slip joint. My guess is that it had very little lubrication?? A new part should not have any play in it, and my guess it would last much longer than the 30,000 miles the original had on it if kept lubricated. JMHO

My experience with Ford E-350, Oshkosh and Freightliner chassis with similar slip joints, some with over 300,000 miles on them, was that with proper lubrication they would seldom develop a lot of play in that slip joint area. More so the ujoints. Fords more prone to wear than Oshkosh and Freightliner, and in my estimation due to the fact the Ford outer socket was shorter than those on Oshkosh and Freightliner. However on the ones that weren't lubricated regularly on any of them showed early wear.
That is/was probably the case. I don't have any history if the previous owner greased the joint. I found out about it through this forum. The zerk is covered up by the dust boot so you wouldn't normally see it. My only comment to that is that I would think most owners don't know about this zerk. Out of site out of mind I guess. Monaco went to a different design in later years as well.
__________________
Craig 2003 Holiday Rambler Scepter 36PST
RR8S 350 Cummins ISC with Banks
2011 Buick Enclave Towed with Readybrute
crah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 04:37 PM   #910
RVM#87 / Senior Member
 
DieselTech39's Avatar


 
Solo Rvers Club
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Ham Lake, MN
Posts: 3,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by crah View Post
That is/was probably the case. I don't have any history if the previous owner greased the joint. I found out about it through this forum. The zerk is covered up by the dust boot so you wouldn't normally see it. My only comment to that is that I would think most owners don't know about this zerk. Out of site out of mind I guess. Monaco went to a different design in later years as well.


Just one other thought, if Monaco went to a different design can that be retro fit to your unit?? Might be worth some investigation. There are three areas that would need to be addressed:
!. Overall length of the assembly;
2. The size (internal diameter) and number of splines at the steering shaft (Column) end; and,
3. The size (internal diameter) and number of splines at the input shaft of the steering box.
__________________

__________________
Have a wonderful day!
Ken (RVM 87)
FT DP Wanna B The journey is the destination!
Retired & perfecting procrastination!
DieselTech39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
Flyer2005
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.