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Old 07-11-2014, 12:10 PM   #925
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Thanks for the explanation Van, I understand the situation now.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:26 AM   #926
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Do you know how hard it is to weld up your cross bars for a road test when a tree falls on the power lines down the road and knocks the power out for 12 hours. OK MAYBE this morning I can get some work done.

By the way my bars will be 50" in length if anyone is keeping track of coaches and length of cross bars.
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Old 07-15-2014, 06:21 PM   #927
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Cross Braces installed. 1 more resounding YES they made a BIG difference. $300 well spent ! Major improvement in many areas. BY BY tail wag !
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:09 PM   #928
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Yes, well worth it for me too. Thanks again Van!
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:52 AM   #929
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What if ?

Yes THANKS VAN ! Must have been a long night, I did not even catch the BY BY....ok should have been BYE BYE Tail wag.

ANYWAY.......THANKS VAN !

Van and I discussed his pan hard bar stiffener and the effect the pan hard bar has in this whole equation.

Now do not get me wrong, fixing the front end and rear end on the coach over the last 3 weeks has had a MAJOR POSITIVE effect on the way the coach handles but we discussed the pan hard issue and I think in my search for perfection or to even see IF it makes a difference I am contemplating replacing the 4 pan hard bar bushings with ATRO ones.

Thoughts anyone ?

4 are cheap and they do not look that hard to change out.
Van has reported good feedback on a few stiffeners and I do not want to go there, yet. Van has a watts link set up he is contemplating. WOW you go VAN !
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:12 AM   #930
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Craig, I think if you're striving for perfection, you should change the pan hard bar bushings.

Jim
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:05 AM   #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Jim View Post
Craig, I think if you're striving for perfection, you should change the pan hard bar bushings.

Jim
I like it !
I am at least trying to get close and what the heck it is a CHEAP upgrade.

Thanks
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:20 PM   #932
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I like it !
I am at least trying to get close and what the heck it is a CHEAP upgrade.

Thanks
I realize that you and I don't have the same coach. In my case, getting those original no good suspension bushings replaced with the ATRO bushings made a whole world of difference! Then I added the Van Will trailing arm brace, and, as I have reported earlier, the coach handles like an absolute dream!

I will add that at the time, Van thought that one brace would do the job. So, right now, that's what I have. I plan to add the other brace, so that I have a true 'cross brace', but the coach handles so wonderfully that doing that is on the back burner, at the bottom of a long list of 'to do' items.

I also intend to install any new designs that Van comes up with. You know, striving for perfection.

My coach also has the TRW steering box with the steering wheel play set to absolute zero. I don't know how anybody can put up with having any steering wheel play. I know I can't.

Jim
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:24 PM   #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Jim View Post
I realize that you and I don't have the same coach. In my case, getting those original no good suspension bushings replaced with the ATRO bushings made a whole world of difference! Then I added the Van Will trailing arm brace, and, as I have reported earlier, the coach handles like an absolute dream!

I will add that at the time, Van thought that one brace would do the job. So, right now, that's what I have. I plan to add the other brace, so that I have a true 'cross brace', but the coach handles so wonderfully that doing that is on the back burner, at the bottom of a long list of 'to do' items.

I also intend to install any new designs that Van comes up with. You know, striving for perfection.

My coach also has the TRW steering box with the steering wheel play set to absolute zero. I don't know how anybody can put up with having any steering wheel play. I know I can't.

Jim
Jim,

You are so right. Steering wheel play, only AFTER I eliminated it did I truly realize how much affect it had on the coach and my driving experience.
Van was right, when we talked in Perry he said this would be the FIRST thing he would fix BEFORE adding the braces. I had stopped by his coach just to take a look the braces.
BOY did that start a ball rolling....LOVE MY TRW !

I will be ordering the ATRO bushings this week. Can not hurt :-)

Get that other cross brace in when you can, it should help a little.
Then we can run the slalom course :-)
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:07 PM   #934
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This discussion about steering wheel play is interesting. I've always read previously that some play is normal due to the design by all the experts out there. Then there are some that will state what play is within legal limits, etc. Before this discussion on the TRW swap, I assumed some tiny amount of play was normal so I didn't chase it too much. What does one consider as tiny amount of play? This discussion shows that all play at the steering wheel can be eliminated. I was confused at how others were determining the play. I was under the impression that you had to watch the tires while turning the steering wheel or have a helper. If I'm reading the Sheppard play correctly, it's at the input side of the shaft? So that means your steering wheel will wiggle a little when the coach is in the off position? If that's the case, there is no need to look out the window and try to figure out if the tires are turning at the same time as the steering wheel. If there is any wiggle, something is not right. My car steering wheel does not wiggle at all in the off position. My wiggle is caused by another problem but same concept. Maybe I'm following incorrectly? Correct me if my observation is wrong.
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Old 07-17-2014, 07:49 AM   #935
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Originally Posted by crah View Post
This discussion about steering wheel play is interesting. I've always read previously that some play is normal due to the design by all the experts out there. Then there are some that will state what play is within legal limits, etc. Before this discussion on the TRW swap, I assumed some tiny amount of play was normal so I didn't chase it too much. What does one consider as tiny amount of play? This discussion shows that all play at the steering wheel can be eliminated. I was confused at how others were determining the play. I was under the impression that you had to watch the tires while turning the steering wheel or have a helper. If I'm reading the Sheppard play correctly, it's at the input side of the shaft? So that means your steering wheel will wiggle a little when the coach is in the off position? If that's the case, there is no need to look out the window and try to figure out if the tires are turning at the same time as the steering wheel. If there is any wiggle, something is not right. My car steering wheel does not wiggle at all in the off position. My wiggle is caused by another problem but same concept. Maybe I'm following incorrectly? Correct me if my observation is wrong.
You are right. It is the "wiggle" before you feel any resistance at ALL, and yes you can tell with the engine off and just sitting there. I even think that situation helps you feel the play better.

The FIRST thing Van did when he walked in my coach was grab the steering wheel and give it a wiggle, then he smiled.

If you watch the latest video on the swap thread, Dennis_K posted notice the TRW technician uses just his hand to pull back and forth the pitman arm WITHOUT the engine running.
Then they adjust ALL movement out of the pitman arm, they even state it in the video to REMOVE ALL movement.

Having first hand knowledge in the last month on driving a coach with and without movement...I will take the TRW NO movement !

Crah, I will post this also in the SWAP THREAD as it is good discussion,

Thank you
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:11 PM   #936
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I spent a good portion of my morning reviewing all of the posts on this thread!

So I went out and crawled under my 99 Windsor and pulled on the torque rods and the panhard bar up front. I purchased my first rig last year and have heard a clanking that I thought was a bad shock. The rig had 80k with original Monroe's, now I have the new Bilsteins and 85k. I also put new tires on it. It had four diff brands, I purchased very fresh Bridgestone R280's that are awesome! Made in USA and they come in the size I needed and are carried by les schwab here in NorCal. I had 275/75 in g load rating, I went to 295/75 load range H. So I can run 90 pounds if I want up front. Butttttt the clanking never completely went away after the shock replacement. So today while pulling on the panhard bar I got about a 1/4" of travel pushing and pulling on both ends. I also heard the clanking, so tomorrow I will pull the panhard bar. It looks like a have about a 1/8 of space on either side of the bar in its mount. Is that normal? I can see the bushing, it looks like rubber, any idea on a part number or should I just get my calipers and take measurements?

Guys this thread and forum has been so very helpful to me. I really appreciate the help. I found all the tire size stuff for my rig from a member who had my exact rig but a 40' not a 38'.
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Old 07-18-2014, 07:24 AM   #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomjhall View Post
I spent a good portion of my morning reviewing all of the posts on this thread!

So I went out and crawled under my 99 Windsor and pulled on the torque rods and the panhard bar up front. I purchased my first rig last year and have heard a clanking that I thought was a bad shock. The rig had 80k with original Monroe's, now I have the new Bilsteins and 85k. I also put new tires on it. It had four diff brands, I purchased very fresh Bridgestone R280's that are awesome! Made in USA and they come in the size I needed and are carried by les schwab here in NorCal. I had 275/75 in g load rating, I went to 295/75 load range H. So I can run 90 pounds if I want up front. Butttttt the clanking never completely went away after the shock replacement. So today while pulling on the panhard bar I got about a 1/4" of travel pushing and pulling on both ends. I also heard the clanking, so tomorrow I will pull the panhard bar. It looks like a have about a 1/8 of space on either side of the bar in its mount. Is that normal? I can see the bushing, it looks like rubber, any idea on a part number or should I just get my calipers and take measurements?

Guys this thread and forum has been so very helpful to me. I really appreciate the help. I found all the tire size stuff for my rig from a member who had my exact rig but a 40' not a 38'.
Tom,

Most people I have talked to and the information I have.

Try and go with ATRO bushings. The run about $32 each, I am going to order some today for my pan hard bars.

Look here : http://www.atrobushing.com/oem/mona/

The NEW style Monaco bushing is an improvement from what was OEM on your coach and they are a bit cheaper but make sure as you mention that either choice of bushings will fit your coach.

Papa_Jim's post....#932 above shows what a GREAT improvement ATRO makes.
I think there are 11 bushing total.
Check your trailing arms both front and rear for that same play.

Good luck and SAFE travels
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Old 07-18-2014, 07:56 AM   #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomjhall View Post
I spent a good portion of my morning reviewing all of the posts on this thread!

So I went out and crawled under my 99 Windsor and pulled on the torque rods and the panhard bar up front. I purchased my first rig last year and have heard a clanking that I thought was a bad shock. The rig had 80k with original Monroe's, now I have the new Bilsteins and 85k. I also put new tires on it. It had four diff brands, I purchased very fresh Bridgestone R280's that are awesome! Made in USA and they come in the size I needed and are carried by les schwab here in NorCal. I had 275/75 in g load rating, I went to 295/75 load range H. So I can run 90 pounds if I want up front. Butttttt the clanking never completely went away after the shock replacement. So today while pulling on the panhard bar I got about a 1/4" of travel pushing and pulling on both ends. I also heard the clanking, so tomorrow I will pull the panhard bar. It looks like a have about a 1/8 of space on either side of the bar in its mount. Is that normal? I can see the bushing, it looks like rubber, any idea on a part number or should I just get my calipers and take measurements?

Guys this thread and forum has been so very helpful to me. I really appreciate the help. I found all the tire size stuff for my rig from a member who had my exact rig but a 40' not a 38'.
We used to call our motor coach 'the wandering beast'. I was never able to wiggle or move any of the pan hard bar rods or trailing arms. Neither could any alignment technicians that had worked on the coach.

Installing the Atro bushings transformed the coach into a well mannered road machine. Then I added Van's trailing arm brace, and it made a great improvement. We now have an excellent handling and riding coach.

I think you should consider changing all your suspension bushings. It's a big job, but it's also a huge improvement. The bushings for the rear H Frame are the most important to change, and the hardest to change.

If you can wiggle the bars, I think that you probably shouldn't be driving the coach.

Jim
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