Wandering, sway bars, alignment, ride height, oh my!!

[deSanford]

Another very satisfied ''SWAPPER" de Sanford PS A BIG THANK YOU to the members of this thread who offered their help and encouragement for this unbelievable IMPROVEMENT to my driving enjoyment. Disregard the last picture I got carried away.

[nodine]

Originally Posted by CrazyKnight

Bob,

You will never guess who also is in ABQ. :-). For a few days that is. Time to say hello face to face ?
PM if it could work out.

Craig

Craig,

PM sent with cell phone number. Have not been on line since yesterday morning so just now saw your message. We drove up to Santa Fe yesterday and will pull out of ABQ North KOA in Bernalillo about 10 am this morning to head down to the Balloon Park.

Bob

[mhughes]

OK. Back from my test trip with the front x-bars installed.

Traveled mostly the same path as I did testing the rear x-bars. Highway 138 across the California high desert, over the Wrightwood pass and down the I-15 through Cajon pass to San Diego.

Highway 138 is a rolling, pitching single lane road a fair amount of truck traffic. Didn't notice much improvement at first. The bow wave from trucks passing head on was enough to lift the wipers off the windshield but had no noticeable affect on the handling. It wasn't until I saw the flags flying at a service station did realize there was a 15 or more MPH cross wind. I just hadn't felt it.

The trip down the Cajon pass was unremarkable. Handling was good even though there were, at times, strong variable Santa Ana cross winds. For those not familiar with the Santa Ana winds they are caused by a high pressure system over the south western desert that forces hot air down the canyons into the Los Angeles basin. These winds can be treacherous but, luckily for us, they were fairly mild doing nothing more than pushing us around some.

It wasn't until we turned onto route 76 from Temecula to Oceanside that I realized something was different. Route 76 is a two lane twisty, busy highway and I easily kept up with the traffic taking most turns at 5 MPH or more faster than the posted speed limit. I felt in total control, stayed in my lane with ease and somewhat surprised at the improved handling.

So did the front x-bars improve handling? a resounding yes!
Was it as dramatic an improvement as the rear x-bars. No.

Still I believe there is room for improvement. Front and rear Watts-Linkage and sway bars are in the works.

Eventually I'll be down to just feeling the flexing of the tire sidewalls.

[deSanford]

Very good write up Mike. I'm looking forward to writing my thoughts on the Van Watts Link. de Sanford

[CrazyKnight]

Vanwill and I spent last night and this morning installing a Van's Watts Link on my coach. I am parked in my coach at Van's house in NC. 2 guys just turning wrenches and sharing information, great times !

My first small road test on some nice twisty roads and a short 55 mph run, it does feel tighter and the suspension loading, or H frame movement that occurred in cornering situations seems much improved.

I will post a longer review after my 370 mile drive home on Wed. Two more coaches arrive tomorrow for Watts Link installations.

Thanks Bob Nodine for the chat in ABQ, that is why I drove the coach to Van's, and for the drawings. We learned a little on my installation, the next ones should be easier I hope. My shouldes are already sore.

Good test fit and installation.

Van's parts are pieces of art...beautiful workmanship. Serious skills in the machine shop.

More to follow ��

Craig

[nodine]

Originally Posted by mhughes

OK. Back from my test trip with the front x-bars installed.

Traveled mostly the same path as I did testing the rear x-bars. Highway 138 across the California high desert, over the Wrightwood pass and down the I-15 through Cajon pass to San Diego.

Highway 138 is a rolling, pitching single lane road a fair amount of truck traffic. Didn't notice much improvement at first. The bow wave from trucks passing head on was enough to lift the wipers off the windshield but had no noticeable affect on the handling. It wasn't until I saw the flags flying at a service station did realize there was a 15 or more MPH cross wind. I just hadn't felt it.

The trip down the Cajon pass was unremarkable. Handling was good even though there were, at times, strong variable Santa Ana cross winds. For those not familiar with the Santa Ana winds they are caused by a high pressure system over the south western desert that forces hot air down the canyons into the Los Angeles basin. These winds can be treacherous but, luckily for us, they were fairly mild doing nothing more than pushing us around some.

It wasn't until we turned onto route 76 from Temecula to Oceanside that I realized something was different. Route 76 is a two lane twisty, busy highway and I easily kept up with the traffic taking most turns at 5 MPH or more faster than the posted speed limit. I felt in total control, stayed in my lane with ease and somewhat surprised at the improved handling.

So did the front x-bars improve handling? a resounding yes!
Was it as dramatic an improvement as the rear x-bars. No.

Still I believe there is room for improvement. Front and rear Watts-Linkage and sway bars are in the works.

Eventually I'll be down to just feeling the flexing of the tire sidewalls.

Mike,

Our experiences are similar. I would suspect the Watts link and front cross bars would have about the same affect. The Watts link may be a little more positive as it is a direct control of the H frame where as the bars are only reinforcing the trailing arms, or should I say retarding lateral movement of the trailing arms. I noticed the improvement of the Watts link immediately because we have to drive 12 miles on a twisty two lane country road to get to the interstate. On the interstate the improvement is subtle and as you say it takes awhile to realize the improvement. Yes you do become more confident in the handling of the coach and tend to take the curves faster. We have the sway bars so this thing corners like a dream.

Bob

[rmcb]

Ahh, I perceive a Watts link in my future. I better warm up the old Bridgeport. Craig, Van, I would love to see the specs once you get them worked out. You guys have done a fantastic service to the Monaco community.
All the best.
Roy

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by rmcb

Ahh, I perceive a Watts link in my future. I better warm up the old Bridgeport. Craig, Van, I would love to see the specs once you get them worked out. You guys have done a fantastic service to the Monaco community.
All the best.
Roy

Roy,

There was a couple missing from the Vanwill campground and service center get together this last week....YOU and Deb. Harry and I gave Van a full Q briefing, pictures and all. Van is hooked, Q is in his future :-)

We had 4 other coaches parked in Vanwill's back yard and were installing Watts Link's on 3 off the 4....mine included. Adjusted a TRW on the other and did some poking around. Date night was tonight so more to come in the next day or two on the Watts link. Lets put it this way...you MIGHT want one....wink wink.
You would have been right at home in Van's shop.

We had a GREAT group of Gearheads and wrenchs ...and wives. It was like Quartzite with a full machine shop and guys that worked...and shared a few beers and ideas together...effortlessly....GREAT TIMES !

I would love to that again ! My body might need a rest from crawling under so many coaches in three days....but hey it was FUN.

Safe travels,

Craig

[nodine]

Originally Posted by CrazyKnight

Roy,

.... Adjusted a TRW on the other and did some poking around..... .

Craig

Was it Roger's coach you adjusted the TRW on? Have you found out what is causing Roger's wandering?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Bob

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by nodine

Was it Roger's coach you adjusted the TRW on? Have you found out what is causing Roger's wandering?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Bob

Bob,

Not Craig, but I’ll answer. It was not Roger’s coach that we adjusted the TRW box on. It was Paul Whittle’s 94 Signature (awesome coach) that we adjusted the steering gear on. Paul said he felt the improvement on his ride home to Atlanta. Roger’s TRW was a fresh rebuild and did not need adjusting.

We installed Watts links on Craig’s coach, Harry’s (HappyCarz 08 Camelot) coach, and Roger’s coach. The installations on Craig’s and Harry’s coaches were very similar to yours. Harry had slightly more available room than yours (+1/4”), but a larger jack cylinder. In both installations, the Watts pivot was mounted on a “bridge” over the front hydraulic jack cylinder. In both installations, the Watts link needed to be at the rear of the H-frame, because the Panhard rod was near the front of the H-frame.

Roger’s installation (2004 Diplomat) was totally different. His P-rod, like mine, was near the rear of the H-frame, so the Watts link needed to be at the front of the H-frame. We fabricated a framework that could be bolted to (and reinforce) the down-tubes supporting the rear of the generator, and mounted the Watts link pivot to that framework. Craig and I made the strategic mistake of not driving Roger’s coach BEFORE installing the Watts link. Roger already had rear X-braces, front P-rod stiffener, and had recently made the switch from the Sheppard to TRW steering gear box (pioneered by Craig, AKA “Crazy Knight”). Craig and I both drove Roger’s coach after the installation, and thought it handled responsively and did not wander. The real test is how Roger feels about the coach handling after he drives it a few hundred miles. BTW, we performed the "tail wag" test on Roger's and Paul's coach. Probably due to the rear X-braces, Roger's coach exhibited little "squirming" in the rear. Paul's coach, with the old-style bushings, was a lot more of a "mover".

Craig (2011 Knight) said he felt a definite improvement from his installation of the Watts link. He, too, will have a better evaluation after his seven-hour trip home to Atlanta. Craig said his impression was much like yours--no need to "crank in" correction BEFORE entering a curve.

Harry did not drive his coach until he left my house. I have not heard from him. Harry thought his coach handled very well already, but he is a perfectionist.

I think the results are very encouraging. Again, if one's coach will allow the installation of X-braces on the front trailing arms, that is probably just as effective as the Watts link, and a good bit simpler.

[rmcb]

Craig,
When I heard about it, I tried to think of a way to make a speed run back there to be part of it. Sounds like lots of fun and lots of good work. I can't wait to find out the specs on the Watts link so I can make one.

Henrik and Anna stopped by last weekend and we changed out a shower valve and fabbed/installed SS slide out skis on his coach. We also painted a test square of new clear coat on the top of his rear cap for evaluation. Anna treated us to a fantastic traditional Danish dinner. I gave him a primer on Van's cross braces, anti-sway bars, TRW steering gears and Van's new Watts link. I think he is now thinking about handling.

Right now I'm in the midst of redesigning a new gate system consisting of a swinging gate with rails and a sliding gate that can nest on is so I can open up both sides of my apron (one at a time of course). This is in preparation for a RV shelter going in within the next month. Then, I will be able to tinker in all weather plus prevent/retard sun and water damage.

So many projects, so much fun.

Sure you can't make it to Q this year? Promises to be a good one.

Happy trails my friend,

Roy

[nodine]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Bob,

Not Craig, but I’ll answer. It was not Roger’s coach that we adjusted the TRW box on. It was Paul Whittle’s 94 Signature (awesome coach) that we adjusted the steering gear on. Paul said he felt the improvement on his ride home to Atlanta. Roger’s TRW was a fresh rebuild and did not need adjusting.

We installed Watts links on Craig’s coach, Harry’s (HappyCarz 08 Camelot) coach, and Roger’s coach. The installations on Craig’s and Harry’s coaches were very similar to yours. Harry had slightly more available room than yours (+1/4”), but a larger jack cylinder. In both installations, the Watts pivot was mounted on a “bridge” over the front hydraulic jack cylinder. In both installations, the Watts link needed to be at the rear of the H-frame, because the Panhard rod was near the front of the H-frame.

Roger’s installation (2004 Diplomat) was totally different. His P-rod, like mine, was near the rear of the H-frame, so the Watts link needed to be at the front of the H-frame. We fabricated a framework that could be bolted to (and reinforce) the down-tubes supporting the rear of the generator, and mounted the Watts link pivot to that framework. Craig and I made the strategic mistake of not driving Roger’s coach BEFORE installing the Watts link. Roger already had rear X-braces, front P-rod stiffener, and had recently made the switch from the Sheppard to TRW steering gear box (pioneered by Craig, AKA “Crazy Knight”). Craig and I both drove Roger’s coach after the installation, and thought it handled responsively and did not wander. The real test is how Roger feels about the coach handling after he drives it a few hundred miles. BTW, we performed the "tail wag" test on Roger's and Paul's coach. Probably due to the rear X-braces, Roger's coach exhibited little "squirming" in the rear. Paul's coach, with the old-style bushings, was a lot more of a "mover".

Craig (2011 Knight) said he felt a definite improvement from his installation of the Watts link. He, too, will have a better evaluation after his seven-hour trip home to Atlanta. Craig said his impression was much like yours--no need to "crank in" correction BEFORE entering a curve.

Harry did not drive his coach until he left my house. I have not heard from him. Harry thought his coach handled very well already, but he is a perfectionist.

I think the results are very encouraging. Again, if one's coach will allow the installation of X-braces on the front trailing arms, that is probably just as effective as the Watts link, and a good bit simpler.

Thanks for the report Van. The more I drive this coach with the Watts link the more impressed I become. On Monday we were coming down I-15 from the junction of I-70 and I-15 towards our next stop, Zion National Park. We stopped at a Walmart in Cedar City and we did not realize the wind was blowing so hard. When the wife opened the door it made a big bang as the wind blew it all the way opened and ripped it from her hand. After we left the Walmart and headed on down I-15 we were approaching a triple trailer UPS truck. Here in Utah triple towing is legal. At first we thought our eyes were playing tricks on us but not so. The UPS truck looked liked a snake traveling down the road as the wind tangled with it. As we got closer I was almost afraid if we passed it one of the trailers would swing into us. We blew by that squirming rig at 80 MPH.

Bob

[Vanwill]

Had a great time with all these folks!

[Vanwill]

I am sorry, but I have somehow lost your email. You had said you had read much of the thread, and asked how to have X-braces fabricated. Please contact me offline and I will try to help you.