RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Monaco Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-12-2018, 07:22 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 186
Talking Water Pressure & Flushing - Wet Bay Issues

Hi folks;

Got a few q's with respect to my 2000 Diplomat and the wet bay. Today I made a garden hose up and attached it to the water faucet in the wet bay. To my surprise, there was very little pressure. I would have expected the same pressure as the park has. On the faucet there is a brass adapter deally and it looks like some kind of pressure device. I don't know why it's there or what it does. I tried to remove it but it did not want to come off easily. That's question #1. Also, what the heck is it for??



After that I wanted to flush out the black water tank. Obviously, due to the low pressure from that tap, I took the fresh water supply off and connected it to the black water flushing adapter. Also, to my surprise, the tank was not filling at the rate I thought it should. It's looking like it's going to be at least an 8 hour job for that thing to fill up....That brings me to question #2 - why the heck is it so slow to fill? Here's a pic of the wet bay. Btw, water pressure in the unit itself is fine. So the pressure from the park is not bad. I figured the black tank would fill at roughly the same speed as the fresh water tank (about an hour or so). This does not appear to be the case....any ideas on either of these two Q's would be much appreciated.

__________________

__________________
Best!

Bob Jones - 2000 Monaco Diplomat
BobJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-12-2018, 08:08 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
chuckftboy's Avatar
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North East Florida
Posts: 858
The brass fitting in your first picture is a check valve to only allow water to come out of the faucet and not be siphoned back in. The reason it is hard to remove is because it is locked down with an allen set screw. that small hole is where you can remove the set screw.
__________________

__________________
2015, HR Ambassador 38DBT / 2006 Jeep TJ Towd
340 Cummins / Freightliner Chassis
chuckftboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 08:10 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
windsorbill's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 2,042
that's an anti siphon check valve. Keeps water from coming back through hose and into your water system. Think of it as a check valve to keep nasty water from back feeding into your system.

There is a set screw that is designed to be tightened and break off. Then it's not removable. If the set screw is not broken off, you can loosen it and the valve should unscrew off the faucet.
__________________
Bill & Brigitte
06 Windsor PRQ, Cummins 400 ISL
2014 Honda CRV
windsorbill is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 09:25 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Flyin4Fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 195
As you no doubt have learned from the other posts, the brass fitting is a an anti anti-siphon valve. This device helps to ensure / prevent water from back-flowing into your potable water lines & supply tank. For example, without the backflow preventer / anti-siphon valve, it's possible that when you attached your black tank flush line to the water supply spigot, that raw sewage could cross-contaminate your fresh water supply lines. Notice that the faucet is lower than the black tank flush connection. In the event that your water supply line has zero pressure, it's possible that raw sewage could at least enter the valve / faucet. It also will ensure that water could not be siphoned back through that valve if there were a relative negative pressure in your water supply line.... thus the term "anti-siphon". Although there are Technical differences between an anti-siphon valve and a back flow preventer, I don't think it's necessary to go into that here.

I'm certain there is another vacuum brake in your black tank flush line. So, it isn't just that brass backflow preventer that's protecting your water supply.

You wondered why the water was entering your black tank so slowly... It's very common that the spray nozzle inside your black tank has become fouled or plugged with solids. It's a good practice to never let the liquid level in your black tank rise to the level of the spray nozzle inside. However, even if it doesn't, I've found that over a period of time the ports on the spray nozzle will still become fouled with growth from the nutrient-rich environment in your black tank. In other words, you will have to clean this periodically. It should become obvious when it needs to be cleaned, like now.... Because the flow is so slow. Typically, when it's working properly, you should be able to hear it spraying inside the tank.
Flyin4Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 09:48 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 186
Wow! And I mean Wow! Thanks for the most excellent reply!

My Dad had said the same thing - that the brass fitting was there to prevent back-flow. I'm still not sure why the garden hose attached to it has such crappy pressure though. But, it sounds like I should keep it in place.

With respect to the black tank - how far up is the spray nozzle? Does it encricle the upper tank with lots of nozzles? How should a person clean it? When the unit was at the other location the water pressure was very high. You could put out a fire with the water pressure. In that case, the black tank filling through the flush port took a little over an hour to get to 3/4 - at that point I stopped filling.

Understanding then that the water pressure here will be less, it now makes sense that the filling would take a lot longer. Perhaps I need to send some CLR through the line and see what happens. But my question remains, you mentioned cleaning the nozzles - how would one do that?

Again, many thanks for the reply. It really highlighted what I was suspecting but with experience!
__________________
Best!

Bob Jones - 2000 Monaco Diplomat
BobJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 11:25 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Flyin4Fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJones View Post
Wow! And I mean Wow! Thanks for the most excellent reply!

With respect to the black tank - how far up is the spray nozzle? Does it encricle the upper tank with lots of nozzles? How should a person clean it? When the unit was at the other location the water pressure was very high. You could put out a fire with the water pressure. In that case, the black tank filling through the flush port took a little over an hour to get to 3/4 - at that point I stopped filling. ...

... But my question remains, you mentioned cleaning the nozzles - how would one do that?
You would think that there would be several spray nozzles around the perimeter of the black tank, wouldn't you? Unfortunately, there is ONLY ONE spray nozzle. It is most likely located at the opposite end from where the tank drain is located. If your tank stretches across the full width of your coach, it would be on the other side... Accessible from a panel or compartment door directly opposite of the compartment shown in the picture.

Also, you may be able to visually trace the water line leading from the connector shown in your picture. The tubing will, at some point, head upwards about 20 inches, where a vacuum break is installed. After that, it will head back down and travel to the area on the tank with the spray nozzle. This should look like a semi-circular flange fitting which is fastened to the tank wall with three or four (hopefully stainless steel) screws. Remove those screws, and then the flange fitting. There is probably a bead of silicone between it and the tank wall. You will see a 2" to 3" ling stub sticking into the tank. This stub has holes drilled in the end, as well as around the circumference. That's all there is to it... It is simply a piece of plastic pipe with holes drilled in it. You'll you will be extremely disappointed at how low-tech this item is!!

I have fastened a pass-through port which allows me to loosen a collar to extract the spray nozzle, clean it and reinsert it. Once you get familiar with it, and after you've learned how often it needs cleaning, you can use your own imagination to determine the best way to make this task easier.

One unsolicited piece of advice... You had indicated that you connected a hose from the spigot to the connector for rinsing your black tank. Typically, you would want to attach a short hose directly to the city water supply. When you attach your hose to that spigot (your RV's) you're receiving water after it has traveled through whatever length of tubing in your coach. Typically it's a very small line... 3/8 inch at best, and has multiple fittings, 90 angles etc. In other words, you're just not going to get the best flow through that spigot.

For cleaning your black tank use the largest garden hose you have available and attach it to the best water supply. Again, that tank flushing kit has a vacuum break which will prevent contamination. If it doesn't have one, whoever installed the kit made a bad decision not to put it in line.

Also, I get the impression that you're using it simply to add water to your tank... then dumping it - to clean the tank. After you get the spray nozzle working properly, you'll find that it works quite well to LEAVE THE DRAIN VALVE OPEN and let the spray nozzle run for 20 to 30 minutes or longer. BE CAREFUL, once you have cleaned your spray nozzle, your tank can fill Very Quickly - - 10 minutes possibly. So leave the drain valve open. Leave the drain valve open. Leave the drain valve open! I can't tell you how many times I have watched a neighbor overfill his black tank only to watch the sewer come spraying out the top of the vent stack on the roof. Generally, while that is happening it is also overflowing the toilet bowl inside the coach. You get the idea, right?
Flyin4Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2018, 05:13 AM   #7
Senior Member


 
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,489
The black tank flush on our (HR/Monaco) coach passes 2.5 gallons per minute at 55 psi water pressure, or about 6 minutes for 15 gallons. I set an alarm on my cell phone to reduce the chance I'll overfill the tank when using the tank flush.

Also, I can hear when the spray head starts to go underwater in the black tank; the spray sound almost goes away. That happens at around the 30 gallon level. If and when this change occurs will vary by coach.

Finally, the black tank starts to make some popping sounds as it fills past the 32 gallon point, and that's an alert as well. I have it on my to-do list to determine why the popping occurs (I suspect a prior-owner modification of the vents).

Here is a link to a Google search of iRV2 posts containing the terms "black tank," "flush" and "nozzle."
__________________
Mark
2008 Holiday Rambler Admiral 30PDD (Ford F-53 chassis)
2009 Honda Fit Sport
l1v3fr33ord1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2018, 11:41 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Hickory, NC
Posts: 89
To flush my black tank I drain empty and close the valve and let the tank fill with the sprayer for about 10 minutes. Repeat until the affluent running thru the clear nozzle attached at the tank drain valves is clear. I find the head pressure from the partially filled tank helps to wash solids out of the tank better.
__________________
Mike & Barbara Cole
2006 Monaco Camelot
mb2875 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2018, 06:00 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 186
As always - a massive thanks to everyone that posted into this thread to help me with this issue and also a thanks for the link to the other threads!!

Understanding then that the nozzle going into the tank from the black tank flushing system tends to clog up, I took the side cover off but could not see a small hose going to a nozzle. So I'm not sure if perhaps my unit has PVC pipe going to it or if the nozzle is elsewhere. This is a picture from the opposite side of the wet bay;

__________________
Best!

Bob Jones - 2000 Monaco Diplomat
BobJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2018, 09:12 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
RockyMtnRide's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyin4Fun View Post
You would think that there would be several spray nozzles around the perimeter of the black tank, wouldn't you? Unfortunately, there is ONLY ONE spray nozzle. It is most likely located at the opposite end from where the tank drain is located. If your tank stretches across the full width of your coach, it would be on the other side... Accessible from a panel or compartment door directly opposite of the compartment shown in the picture.

Also, you may be able to visually trace the water line leading from the connector shown in your picture. The tubing will, at some point, head upwards about 20 inches, where a vacuum break is installed. After that, it will head back down and travel to the area on the tank with the spray nozzle. This should look like a semi-circular flange fitting which is fastened to the tank wall with three or four (hopefully stainless steel) screws. Remove those screws, and then the flange fitting. There is probably a bead of silicone between it and the tank wall. You will see a 2" to 3" ling stub sticking into the tank. This stub has holes drilled in the end, as well as around the circumference. That's all there is to it... It is simply a piece of plastic pipe with holes drilled in it. You'll you will be extremely disappointed at how low-tech this item is!!

I have fastened a pass-through port which allows me to loosen a collar to extract the spray nozzle, clean it and reinsert it. Once you get familiar with it, and after you've learned how often it needs cleaning, you can use your own imagination to determine the best way to make this task easier.

One unsolicited piece of advice... You had indicated that you connected a hose from the spigot to the connector for rinsing your black tank. Typically, you would want to attach a short hose directly to the city water supply. When you attach your hose to that spigot (your RV's) you're receiving water after it has traveled through whatever length of tubing in your coach. Typically it's a very small line... 3/8 inch at best, and has multiple fittings, 90 angles etc. In other words, you're just not going to get the best flow through that spigot.

For cleaning your black tank use the largest garden hose you have available and attach it to the best water supply. Again, that tank flushing kit has a vacuum break which will prevent contamination. If it doesn't have one, whoever installed the kit made a bad decision not to put it in line.

Also, I get the impression that you're using it simply to add water to your tank... then dumping it - to clean the tank. After you get the spray nozzle working properly, you'll find that it works quite well to LEAVE THE DRAIN VALVE OPEN and let the spray nozzle run for 20 to 30 minutes or longer. BE CAREFUL, once you have cleaned your spray nozzle, your tank can fill Very Quickly - - 10 minutes possibly. So leave the drain valve open. Leave the drain valve open. Leave the drain valve open! I can't tell you how many times I have watched a neighbor overfill his black tank only to watch the sewer come spraying out the top of the vent stack on the roof. Generally, while that is happening it is also overflowing the toilet bowl inside the coach. You get the idea, right?


Very interested in your comment about a pass through fitting on your black tank spray head. Can you tell me how you did that and where you bought the parts. Is it some sort of a slip fitting? Common plumbing part? Thanks
Doug
__________________
2006 Monaco Diplomat
2017 JKU Sport Toad
and a garage full of Harleys
RockyMtnRide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2018, 10:35 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Flyin4Fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 195
Wow, you really read that entire post? I thought for certain that it would be a cure for chronic insomnia.

I used a fitting that is readily available... they are commonly used to terminate non-metallic, flexible conduit. Primarily they are used as a strain relief on electrical cord where it meets the panel or other device. It's called a Liquid Tight Strain Relief, Cord Connector and it's available in several types of plastic as well as aluminum, nickel plated aluminum, stainless steel. There are various sizes; I used one with a 1" or 1" MNPT, but I faced off the entire length of the threaded end (space requirements) then welded it to a stainless steel plate. This plate was then fastened to the side wall of my black tank... just like the original tank flush assembly.

The cord connector has a compressible rubber grommet that is sized to accept whatever size pipe / stub you choose for your spray nozzle. I believe that I used 1/2 inch PVC pipe... It seems like schedule 80 had the appropriate outside diameter for the Viton (possibly Buna-N / Nitrile) grommet supplied with my liquid tight cord connector. You will need to determine the best method of plugging the end of this pipe. Remember the outside diameter needs to be smooth - - so no external fittings can be used. I fashioned a PVC plug and seated / glued it in the end of the pipe. Then, I drilled holes of roughly the same pattern as the original spray nozzle. I made the holes much larger, believing that it wouldn't plug up as often. It seems to work. I would recommend drilling 3/32 holes. I know that sounds large, but frankly this nozzle is not functioning like a pressure washer by any stretch of the imagination. It's really just rinsing the tank; so these holes do nothing more than create a pattern to distribute the water evenly throughout the interior... hopefully rinsing the walls in the process.

I'm not at the right location to show you a picture of the finished assembly, but I will attach a picture of a cord connector. I've always called it an "Appleton Cord Connector", but I believe that's just the name brand. I know they're available at the big box stores, any electrical supply house and Amazon.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20180113-235450~2.png
Views:	30
Size:	355.2 KB
ID:	188610
Flyin4Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2018, 07:48 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
RockyMtnRide's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 407
I retired from the electrical control world so I know exactly what you are talking about. Great idea. Thanks for the nice write up.
__________________
2006 Monaco Diplomat
2017 JKU Sport Toad
and a garage full of Harleys
RockyMtnRide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2018, 08:23 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Flyin4Fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 195
You're welcome, no problem. If I were completely honest with myself, I think I would admit the only reason I've owned RVs / Coaches is that it allows me to bring endless tinkering projects with me wherever I roam and/or live! (Can't carry enough supplies, tools and equipment in the planes)
Flyin4Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2018, 11:03 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 186
Don't mean to interrupt but is there another place where the spray nozzle could be? I don't seem to see it on the far side of the tank?

__________________

__________________
Best!

Bob Jones - 2000 Monaco Diplomat
BobJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
water, water pressure



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flushing black water tank water comes out side of Bounder KF5UMC Fleetwood Products Owner's Forum 8 01-08-2017 04:46 PM
Flushing issues.... Boo ! Harleygirl 5th Wheel Discussion 5 09-29-2014 06:01 PM
What to do when water back flushing though city water intake line when pump running CurrentBoy Class A Motorhome Discussions 7 06-02-2014 06:11 AM
Water Lines in Wet Bay Compartment scooterbob MH-General Discussions & Problems 9 01-05-2014 06:42 AM
Wet Bay valves issues 01 Coachmen Donlock MH-General Discussions & Problems 3 05-11-2013 10:59 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.