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Old 03-18-2019, 11:41 AM   #1
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Location: New Hampshire
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Where is coach ground/ dimming lights

Hello all,

Iím going crazy trying to solve an electrical power issue with our Ď06 Camelot 40 PAQ. While totally soaped up in the shower, my water pump quit. Not only did the water pump quit, but I believe my control panel power quit, also. They are apparently on an automatic resettable circuit breaker as the pump restarted, but promptly quit again. I have schematics for the coach, but some of the PDFs donít have high enough resolution, so I canít see what devices use what ground or power in some cases.

Hereís what Iíve done and checked so far.
1. Removed and cleaned all battery connections.
2. Replaced the water pump (not the issue, now I have an expensive spare)
3. Checked the water pump connections for corrosion
4. Swapped out the water pump relay
5. Measured water pump current draw (8-9 amps, normal)
6. Measured the current drop when the water pump activates- analog meter shows 1V, o-scope shows 1.8V, hence LED ceiling lights dimming
7. Checked 12V connections in the bedroom distribution box, hot lead only- donít know where the water pump gets its ground from

Since all the positive connections seem good, Iím assuming a bad ground is the issue, but donít know where to look, and since itís a ground connection, I doubt my wire tracing tool will work, though it might be worth a shot. There are three pump switches, but Iím assuming they activate the circuit board by the water pump which then activates the water pump power relay, instead of switching a ground, but I could be wrong.

What baffles me is where is the automatic resetting relay? I have searched both 12V power distribution areas, one in the bedroom that has the fuses for the water pump and other stuff, and the outside fuse panel by the driver. Also, why would a 9 amp draw trip the breaker of what Iím assuming from the schematics is a 50 amp breaker? BTW, when operating the electric slide motors, which are fed directly from the third distribution panel near the batteries, the lights donít dim at all. Could the problem be related to the Ďsalesmaní relay?

Thanks for any insight!

Walt
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:30 PM   #2
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Hi Walt; Just going to take a shot at your problem. Electrical problems drive me nuts also. I have an 01 Windsor so our systems might not be too similar. My water pump gets its ground through the Latching Relay in the water pump bay. That is where all the water pump switches go and activate that relay to make a ground connection for the water pump to run. I would think if the connection is interrupted at that relay, the water pump switch would need to be pressed again to reactivate the relay. So I don't think the latching relay, if you have one, would be the problem. If there is a automatic resetting circuit breaker in the system, this could explain the pump restarting. I don't know if you can trace the ground wire from the water pump. In Monaco coaches there is a ground bar or bars that the ground white wiring is connected to and those bars are in different locations. Sounds like your lighting circuit is in the same loop as the water pump. Here is one thing I could think of for a test. Un hook the ground wire from it's connection to the water pump from the coach harness. Now get a wire and hook that up to the water pump ground and find a good ground close buy. Run a test and see what happens. If the pump runs and does not quit, you have a ground problem. If everything stays the same and the pump still shuts off and restarts, I don't think you have a ground problem. I would just try to isolate the water pump on the ground side from the coach wiring harness and see what happens next. Let us know how it goes and hope you get a quick fix. Good luck!
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:32 PM   #3
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Great idea, I’ll have to see if I can scare up some wire to do the test. Part of the issue is finding the ground bar.

Walt
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:46 PM   #4
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Hi Walt; Will be interesting to see how your test pans out. The ground bars can be in certain places and even could be behind panels. The ground bars I know about on my 01 Windsor are located, I think one is in the electrical bay outside under the drivers seat and could be behind the black panel with the 3 plastic wing nuts. I have one on the firewall in the generator compartment. The other is in the electrical bay, last door on the curb side where my battery disconnects are. I am sure there are more. Good luck on your test.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photopilot View Post
Hello all,

I’m going crazy trying to solve an electrical power issue with our ‘06 Camelot 40 PAQ. While totally soaped up in the shower, my water pump quit. Not only did the water pump quit, but I believe my control panel power quit, also. They are apparently on an automatic resettable circuit breaker as the pump restarted, but promptly quit again. I have schematics for the coach, but some of the PDFs don’t have high enough resolution, so I can’t see what devices use what ground or power in some cases.

Here’s what I’ve done and checked so far.
1. Removed and cleaned all battery connections.
2. Replaced the water pump (not the issue, now I have an expensive spare)
3. Checked the water pump connections for corrosion
4. Swapped out the water pump relay
5. Measured water pump current draw (8-9 amps, normal)
6. Measured the current drop when the water pump activates- analog meter shows 1V, o-scope shows 1.8V, hence LED ceiling lights dimming
7. Checked 12V connections in the bedroom distribution box, hot lead only- don’t know where the water pump gets its ground from

Since all the positive connections seem good, I’m assuming a bad ground is the issue, but don’t know where to look, and since it’s a ground connection, I doubt my wire tracing tool will work, though it might be worth a shot. There are three pump switches, but I’m assuming they activate the circuit board by the water pump which then activates the water pump power relay, instead of switching a ground, but I could be wrong.

What baffles me is where is the automatic resetting relay? I have searched both 12V power distribution areas, one in the bedroom that has the fuses for the water pump and other stuff, and the outside fuse panel by the driver. Also, why would a 9 amp draw trip the breaker of what I’m assuming from the schematics is a 50 amp breaker? BTW, when operating the electric slide motors, which are fed directly from the third distribution panel near the batteries, the lights don’t dim at all. Could the problem be related to the ‘salesman’ relay?

Thanks for any insight!

Walt
Bypass the salesman switch solenoid by connecting the two large cables together with a bolt and tape up the connection. If you no longer have the intermittent power problem you will know the solenoid is the source of the trouble. Intermittent power thru that solenoid is common.

Bob
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:26 AM   #6
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We have a winner! Bob (nodine) hit the nail on the head. I bypassed the salesman relay and all is well. I suspected it early on and cycled the switch a couple of times with no change, so I didn’t think that was the problem, even though a little voice in my head said that recent use of the switch right before the problem started may have caused the problem. Thanks for all the suggestions!

Walt
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