30 AMP to 50 AMP conversion questions?

[wereveriroam]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the Excel forum so I'll give you a little info about me. I've been living F/T in my 06 Excel RT 30RKW for about 3.5 years in NV and AZ. With the exception of the black tank cracking 2 weeks after the warranty expiring I haven't had any other major issues.
I'd like to add a 2nd AC to my RV but only have 30 AMP service. The single AC unit works well and cycles on and off with the outside temperature of up to 104F. Between 105F-109F, the AC doesn't shut off but it can keep the temp at 79F in the low end of the RV but the bedroom stays an uncomfortable 83-84F. Once it hits 110F, more BTU's are needed!
I know the obvious solution is to move to a cooler climate but at this time that's not possible. I'd like to convert to 50 AMP and add a 2nd AC but don't know what's needed and what to expect to pay. I'll have a mobile RV guy do it or take it into a shop since I'm not to good with electricity but don't want to get fleeced on the price .
Another question I'd like to get some feedback on is the location to place the second AC. It would seem best to place above the bedroom but that will increase the height of the RV as well as running electric to it and installing a thermostat will be tricky. I'm wondering if they make A/C's that don't have externally mounted thermostats but aren't only ON/OFF controlled? Another option could be to mount the second unit next to the first.
Any feedback would be appreciated, thank you.

[Wizard]

Can't help you much with placement of second ac unit but with the 30A to 50A conversion, you would need to check a few components:

Breaker panel, is it rated for 50A 240V. If not it would have to be changed out and that could be a big job.

Transfer switch, same as above but not a big problem to change.

Wiring from post to transfer switch and from transfer switch to breaker panel will have to be change to #6 wire.

It can be done, I did it to mine but on mine only the wire and a couple of circuit breakers had to be changed.

Another option I have heard of people doing is to install the unit and run another dedicated 20A cord to the post and not mess with the original wiring. Plug your RV into the post 30A receptical and the second AC into the 20A receptical.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[IC2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizard Another option I have heard of people doing is to install the unit and run another dedicated 20A cord to the post and not mess with the original wiring. Plug your RV into the post 30A receptical and the second AC into the 20A receptical. Good luck and keep us posted.

The additional 15-20 amp service is what I am doing with mine.

If you already have 30 amp service, to convert to 50 amp service it can get exPensive, first of all, but also exTensive as your current breaker panel would probably need to be changed as well as any feed wiring (for sure that will need to be changed) from the entry point leading to it. If the panel is anywhere but the back of the coach, that means running that wiring under the coach to the new breaker box and either abandoning the existing wiring in place or removing it if it is exposed. Then you would need to run wiring to that second a/c, probably using surface mounted raceways as any wiring to a vent will most likely only support a dinky 12v fan. These surface raceways work well, but not exactly pretty in a 'fancy' coach.

I've used these folks for that raceway on home projects as well as an add on wire project on a couple of RVs: Cable Raceways, Plastic Surface Raceways, Cable Covers, Cable Duct, cable routing, Pan-Way, Infostream

While I'm trying not to be negative, it can be a lot more of a project to totally change to a higher amp service then it appears at first look. What ever you do, keep us posted.

[pa0gri]

Is there already a duct (in the ceiling) that transports cold air from the AC to the bedroom?
If so, I would put a small "pusher" fan in that duct to get more cold air in the bedroom. (ceiling fan pulling air out of duct)
Otherwise make a duct/transort for cold air to the bedroom, apparently the AC has enough capacity for the living area.

just my 2 cnts - toy camper owner (24ft)

[Still Working "NOT"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wereveriroam Hi everyone. I'm new to the Excel forum so I'll give you a little info about me. I've been living F/T in my 06 Excel RT 30RKW for about 3.5 years in NV and AZ. With the exception of the black tank cracking 2 weeks after the warranty expiring I haven't had any other major issues. I'd like to add a 2nd AC to my RV but only have 30 AMP service. The single AC unit works well and cycles on and off with the outside temperature of up to 104F. Between 105F-109F, the AC doesn't shut off but it can keep the temp at 79F in the low end of the RV but the bedroom stays an uncomfortable 83-84F. Once it hits 110F, more BTU's are needed! I know the obvious solution is to move to a cooler climate but at this time that's not possible. I'd like to convert to 50 AMP and add a 2nd AC but don't know what's needed and what to expect to pay. I'll have a mobile RV guy do it or take it into a shop since I'm not to good with electricity but don't want to get fleeced on the price . Another question I'd like to get some feedback on is the location to place the second AC. It would seem best to place above the bedroom but that will increase the height of the RV as well as running electric to it and installing a thermostat will be tricky. I'm wondering if they make A/C's that don't have externally mounted thermostats but aren't only ON/OFF controlled? Another option could be to mount the second unit next to the first. Any feedback would be appreciated, thank you.

The first thing I would do is call PI and ask to talk with Jack or Ralph in the service center to check if there is wiring going to the bedroom vent area. Or if you have an electrical outlet near the vent you can use it. If not this is most likely going to get costly since you will have run wiring to wherever you place the new air. You will also have to run 6/3 wiring to a new breaker panel and a new cord for the rig also.

The cheapest thing to do would be go Lowes/Home Depot and look a buying a small portable room air conditioner for rig. You could place it in the living room and close the ducts in the forcing more cold air into the bedroom. I would also close off the bedroom during the day time. This makes a big difference in cooling the rig.

[wa8yxm]

IF you do not have a generator and automatic transfer switch you will need:

50 amp cord, 50 amp breaker box. Some instrucitons at the end of this post:

If you have a generator with out a manual transfer switch, See above plus a 30-50 amp adapter.

If you have a generator WITH an automatic transfer switch, add a 50 amp automatic transfer switch to the list.

Now: I also recommend you visit http://www.psrv.net

(In fact you might do this as an alternative)

The 50 amp box.. 50 amp boxes have two main power bus bars, called L-1 and L-2

You want to "Balance" as much as possible

For example if the Microwave is on L-1, then the Water heater goes on L-2, One air conditioner on each line.

NOTE: Different boxes have different patterns of l-1 l-2 slots

The Progressive dynamics I have they are
1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2

I've seen them
11111 22222

I've seen
1 2
2 1
1 2
2 1

and I've seen
1 2
1 2
1 2

So you need to know your box.

But frankly,,, if the only issue is AC#2, I'd look at the PSRV link above

[BSmith01]

wereveriroam, why don’t you look at a portable air conditioner, they run on 20 amps. I think I would try one before going through all the hassle of converting your rig to 50 amps. They make them to just set in what ever room you want cooled.

[wa8yxm]

Portable A/C's do not cool the room unless one of two conditions are met:

1: They are vented to the outside (two vents) so they can take in fresh air and send hot air back.. Without that vent they actually make the room hotter over all, though the space in front of them gets cool.

2: They are swamp coolers

I still like the psrv solution best.. but upgrading is not out of the question.

One more "upgrade" suggestion.

Put together a special 50 amp cord (you will need a cord with just wire on the motor home end, no plug, socket or fitting, just wire)

Run this into a box, 30 amp and 20 amp breaker, put the 30 on one leg and the 20 on the other, add both a 30 and 20 amp outlet (Likewise the 30 amp outlet hooks to the 30 amp breaker/leg and the 20 to the 20)

Now use the PSRV type connector for the #2 A/C, it will be the only thing on tht leg, but it's easier then pulling all new wires.

[wereveriroam]

Thanks everyone for the timely responses. Sounds like there are several ways to get this to work. I'm going to call PI first and talk to Jack or Ralph and see find out what they think.
My thoughts on the choices of wiring for a 2nd AC are;
1st- I don't want to go with a window unit, just not too crazy about the appearance, it is a nice RV.
2nd- although its a little confined it appears that the wiring between the breaker box and cord plug-in on the side of the trailer is accessable as long as I empty out the cargo area, that area has full length sliding access panels (2), each give you access to 1/2 the area.
3rd- The dedicated line for a 2nd AC is a great ideal as long as there's a second outlet to plug into. I lost the 30AMP plug-in in the park I'm in now and management is slower then molasses to fix it. I'm now plugged into 50AMP with a 30 AMP pigtail.
4th- Running wiring thru the ceiling to the bedroom vent will be a challenge, I checked and it doesn't look like PI ran wiring to it
5th- MOST IMPORTANT $$$ wise; I'm thinking of renting a place for the summer months (6/15-10/15) and putting the RV in storage in the pines. However I'm guesstimating that between a furnished rental and RV storage cost that will run me about $3000-$4000. I think that's pouring $$$ down the drain so if I spend that $$$ on the conversion then at least I have something to show for the cost.
Bottom line is do you all think that a quality job can be done for $3000ish?

Thanks, Ed D. in AJ,AZ

[Workshop]

For my two cents…It is a project that could be done…could be expensive once the materials and labor are totaled….but that expense is subjective. I would think that you should be able to have it installed for the $3,000 that you mentioned, if not less.

I would assume that because your unit is a 30RKW, it is a rear kitchen model? At first I thought that your electrical panel might have been located in the kitchen area….but your comments places it in the forward part of the unit. That’s not a problem, but adds to the cost because of the expense of the cord.

Would also assume that because it is 30 ft and has a 30 amp service that it wasn’t wired in the front bedroom vent area for a second AC to be installed later. As suggested, I would call PI to check….as that would eliminate having to run the 20 amp circuit to that area. They do make wire raceways that can be surfaced mounted and installed in ‘corners’ to help conceal its appearance. You might be able to have space/access between the vent opening and the exterior wall in the ceiling to run the wire from the AC unit to the walls edge so a raceway doesn’t have to be installed on the ceiling.

I understand not wanting to have the second AC installed above the bedroom because of the height issue….but the framing that supports the vent, should be enough to support the weight of the unit. If installed in the living area, a suitable support would need to be built and enclosed. This location would increase the cooling BTU in the living area but not add to the air flow in the bedroom.

I don’t know if you have priced some of the items yet. But the initial cost of the new power cord, RV connection and 13.5K Air conditioner could cost between the $1,100 to $1,300 depending on where you purchase the items.

The cost of the new 50a panel could vary depending on where it is obtained. To reduce the cost, consider replacing it with the same mfg as your existing panel. By doing that you should only have to buy a new 50a, 120/240v and a 20a, 120v breaker along with the blank panel. Cost should be under $15 plus the cost of the new panel which might cost less than $40. I would look on your panel/breaker for the mfg and contact PI to see if they will sell you a blank panel and breakers. I have found that PI to be helpful in obtaining some parts and there prices have been very reasonable.

Another major expense in materials would be the new 6/4 wire run from the RV connection to the panel. I would suggest a SOOW type cable, which is similar to the power cord and what is installed on my unit. The advantage is its flexibility because of the stranded wire. Might be able to obtain it from HD or Lowes, or use a 50a power cord and remove the ends.

The cost of the labor would be hard to estimate from my end. The size of the new panel and its placement might be the most time consuming to replace. Mine is located outside and would be simpler. If built into a cabinet could add extra time because of access. One thing to consider if replacing with the same mfg and similar model, might be able to exchange out the bus bar assy, leaving the box, ground and neutral bars and wires in place.

There are a lot of things that need to be considered and choices made before starting the project. I think it can be done but at a cost and will make life more comfortable. I would make sure I had the work order in writing before they start.




workhorse

[ImagineIF]

Ed D,

You don't need a second receptacle at the campsite if you opt for a dedicated feed to the second AC unit. Just get a 50A to 2-30A Y cable. I would opt for the second feed, as it's easiest, cheapest, and provides the most flexibilty. If you have a GenSet, it's not likely a 220V unit, so even if you go the 50A route the GenSet will not feed the second AC unit. If your GenSet has 50A/110V capacity, then you have another decision. You MAY consider 50A 100V service (not typical). This would assume the GenSet transfer switch and all wiring to the breaker panel can carry 50A--it may not. If it does not, this just got more expensive; but very doable.

Gil

[KU9L]

If upgrading your coach's 30-amp panel to a 50-amp RV panel isn't desired, an alternative would be to expand on this idea to replace one or both outlets to a 30-amp or 20-amp outlet from the 15-amp outlets shown. If so I would want it to be a larger weatherproof box and additional 30 and/or 20-amp breakers installed to protect the outlets and wiring in the event of a short down the line. See the 50-amp Tester as an example.

Dave

[Endeavor2BnC]

Here's my 2 cents worth. We just added outside snap on sun screens over each window in our rig. They have an 80% UV factor, let light in and let a breeze come through. They have reduceed the amount of heat coming into the rig through the windows so much that we are running the A/C a whole lot less. We are now able to have all the shades up all day long and enjoy the outside scenery w/o worrying about the heat gain. The best part was the price. They were only $286. It was well worth it.

[rockintom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endeavor2BnC Here's my 2 cents worth. We just added outside snap on sun screens over each window in our rig. They have an 80% UV factor, let light in and let a breeze come through. They have reduceed the amount of heat coming into the rig through the windows so much that we are running the A/C a whole lot less. We are now able to have all the shades up all day long and enjoy the outside scenery w/o worrying about the heat gain. The best part was the price. They were only $286. It was well worth it.

Good info Timo. Tell us a little more about where to get them?....did you do the install yourself? Do they have to come off when moving the rig? Also, have you notice the improved performance of your new Poler Mach over the AC on your old unit? Just curious! rockin'