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Old 11-25-2013, 08:51 AM   #1
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Heat pump

Here is some information I had requested on how and why the heat pump/furnace in the Excels work in conjunction with one another. Thought some of you might be interested.

Sorry for the foul up.
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File Type: txt Heat pump.txt (4.6 KB, 129 views)
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:37 AM   #2
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Thanks for the article, I had pretty much figured it out from the online thermostat data and use of the unit. This is not the way I would have designed the unit to operate, but that is what we have to work with.

Ken
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:10 PM   #3
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I have interest, but couldn't find a working link. Do you mind re-attaching?
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:23 PM   #4
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Here is the text from the attachment

How does the Heat Pump Thermostat Work

The RvComfort.HP, the RvComfort.PHP, the Coleman True-Air, and the RvComfort.ZC thermostats by RvProducts Inc. are all capable of running not only an Air Conditioning unit, but also an Electric Heat Pump. Frequently we receive calls from customers who do not understand the functions of the Heat Pump Thermostats. This guide is a quick run through of the information already provided in the Thermostat Operation Manual, included with each thermostat.
The Heat Pump is an electric source for heat. It will supply and maintain heat assuming the outside (ambient) temperature is above 40 degrees. This number of course can be slightly higher or lower depending on the humidity. Higher humidity can cause a heat pump to lose efficiency at a slightly higher ambient temperature, while lower humidity can cause a heat pump to lose efficiency at a lower ambient temperature.
Since no one wants to wake up to find that the outside temperature dropped below forty degrees and it is now 50 degrees inside the coach, the Heat Pump thermostats are programmed internally to recognize when the temperature drops five degrees or more from the set temperature to the actual inside room temperature. When the temperature exceeds five degrees or more between the two, the thermostat will default to the next available heat source.
The thermostat, upon sensing a temperature split of five degrees or more in the electric heat mode will bring the gas heat on to assist the electric heat. This is the first strike. A strike is created by the thermostat having to change modes (or run dual modes to sustain a temperature split). The electric heat and the gas heat will continue to run together until the thermostat reaches the set temperature and satisfies. When the electric heat comes back on, it will be in electric heat only at that point. If the temperature again drops five degrees or more from the set point, the thermostat will again bring the gas heat on to assist. This is strike two. The system will then go through the above stated procedures. If the temp should drop five degrees from set point for a third time, the thermostat will give up on the electric heat, lock the electric heat out for two hours (showing either DIFF on the display or FLASHING GAS HEAT on the display) and default to Gas heat only. You WILL NOT be able to run any Electric heat during this two hour lockout.
This is the normal operation for these thermostats. We can also cause the thermostat to lock out in a few ways. If we set the Electric heat set point five degrees or more higher than the room temperature the thermostat will default the same as it would if the temperature dropped five degrees or more. IF at any time the differential between the set temperature and actual temperature is five degrees or more, the thermostat will go into a strike point regardless of whether it is caused by raising the temperature too far, or the temperature falling inside the coach.
The other way the thermostat will receive a strike is if the system runs for twenty minutes and cannot reach the set temperature (satisfy). Again the thermostat senses that something is wrong with the system and defaults to the next available heat source to assist. These strikes are the same as the strikes mentioned above and any combination of three strikes will result in a two hour lockout.
Once the system comes out of lockout, it will only require 1 strike to go back into lockout. So keep in mind, if you are coming out of a two hour lockout, be careful to keep the set and room temperature within four degrees otherwise you will lock the system out again.


To summarize:
1). There is no outside ambient sensor to shut down the heat pump. The heat pump will shut down only if the system is locked out. Ambient temperature does affect the performance of the electric heat.
2). If the thermostat set point and actual room temperature are FIVE degrees or greater the system will default to the next heat source for assistance and obtain a strike. Three consecutive strikes and the electric heat will be locked out for two hours.
3). If the electric heat runs for twenty minutes and cannot satisfy and shut the compressor off, the system will also default to the next heat source for assistance and obtain a strike. Three consecutive strikes and the electric heat will be locked out for two hours.
4). Once the thermostat is locked out, it is a hard lockout. There is no reset that will bypass the lockout. Pulling the fuse will not reset the thermostat lockout.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:54 PM   #5
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Many thanks
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:58 PM   #6
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I switched my winslow over to the 40k 2 stage heat when I bought the coach and last year replaced the ac with a new coleman mach 15 heat pump. a little pricey, but well worth it. works great. i'll never have another unit without a heat pump.....mjf.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:03 AM   #7
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Thanks for the help on posting the text.

Gary
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:16 AM   #8
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What are the advantages of a heat pump in an RV?
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drfife View Post
What are the advantages of a heat pump in an RV?
It saves a lot of LP use. It can put out up to 15,000 BTU of heat to a electric space heaters 1,500 BTU.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:00 AM   #10
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The heat pump is in the same unit as your A/C unit. It has a reversing valve that lets the indoor coil act as a condenser and the evaporator is the out door coil. Thing of it as an A/C operating in reverse.

Typically as you approach 40 degF, the performance of the unit deteriorates rather quickly. Some units may continue to work down to about 37 or 38 degF outside temperature. The newer units use a new 400 series refrigerant and there is really no difference in performance although some feel they perform better.

The problem is the heat coming from a heat pumps is not as hot as from a furnace or an electric resistance heater. This cooler air bothers some people.

The problem is the A/C compressor is running and it does shorten the useful life of the unit. Also, the controls are more complicated and more controls always mean more chance of failure.

Ken
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
...The problem is the heat coming from a heat pumps is not as hot as from a furnace or an electric resistance heater. This cooler air bothers some people....
That is the complaint from some friends with a heat pump.

We have used a single Vornado DVTH to keep the camper comfortable down to about 40°. Below that we also use the electric fireplace.

Just wanted to know what I was missing not having a heat pump.

Thanks,
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triker56 View Post
It saves a lot of LP use. It can put out up to 15,000 BTU of heat to a electric space heaters 1,500 BTU.
We rarely run our furnace. Only when temps are below 35°. At that temp the heat pump would be ineffective anyway.

The Vornado DVTH does an amazing job of keeping the interior temp right where we want it.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drfife View Post
We rarely run our furnace. Only when temps are below 35°. At that temp the heat pump would be ineffective anyway.

The Vornado DVTH does an amazing job of keeping the interior temp right where we want it.
The Vornado DVTH is a electric space heater that puts out 5,600 BTU.
It runs on high using 12.5 AMPS.

It would take 2.6 of them running(32.5 AMPS) at the same time to put out the same BTU heat as a Heat pump using 16 AMPS. Plus a heat pump fan moves air at 320 CFM. The Vornado small fan running at 1,250 RPM moves ?? CFM.

Which one is the most efficient electric $$$ wise to use down to 35º?
If you are on a metered site.
Which one is safer to leave running if you leave the RV?

I use two Broan-NuTone Big Heat Heaters on their Low 1200 Watt setting. They will keep my MH warm down to 35º.
But they are so much slower warming up the MH from 40º to 75º then when turning the heat Pump on. And use more KWH doing it.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triker56 View Post
It saves a lot of LP use. It can put out up to 15,000 BTU of heat to a electric space heaters 1,500 BTU.

Actually, 1500 Watts is 5118.2 BTUH. An electric heater puts out 1500 Watts at 12.5 amps on 120 VAC power.

Ken
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