No Power when not Hooked Up

[BusterPSD]

Hi all,

When I am not hooked up to shore power, I have no juice in the coach. No 12V lights, pump doesn't work, etc.
If hooked to the truck and with the engine running, everything is ok.
I have tried it with the battery disconnect on and with it off - same results. Everything is fine when connected to shore power.
I have two 6V batteries. Charge wizard says everything ok. Batteries read 13.27 on multi-meter.
Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

Paul

[BusterPSD]

Hi all,

When I am not hooked up to shore power, I have no juice in the coach. No 12V lights, pump doesn't work, etc.
If hooked to the truck and with the engine running, everything is ok.
I have tried it with the battery disconnect on and with it off - same results. Everything is fine when connected to shore power.
I have two 6V batteries. Charge wizard says everything ok. Batteries read 13.27 on multi-meter.
Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

Paul

[wrongway]

It is possible that the battery disconnect has gone bad not allowing the batteries to bring power into the couch. You may try to bypass around the disconnect so that you have a direct line into the unit as well.
But,
With power hookup the converter should be bringing in the 12 to operate your items.
Check on the end of the converter. There are two 30 or 40 amp automotive fuses. Check to see if they are both good. If they are blown, this will not allow 12 vt. to the unit from the converter.
Start here and lets see what you can find.

[ExcelRVGuy]

Paul,

When you are connected to shore power, your 12v lights, pump etc. would be operating off the convertor.

When you are connected to your tow vehicle, the 12v system would be functioning off of your TV's batteries.

The ONLY time your battery disconnect is operational is when you are operating exclusively off your unit batteries.

My guess is that you either have a loose (or bad) connection at the battery disconnect OR you could have a bad "resetting" breaker coming off your battery disconnect. The resetting breaker would be in-line and has 2 little posts on it. It is about the size of a match box.

You should leave your battery disconnect in the ON position when you are connected to shore power and/or connected to your Tow Vehicle. In either case, your batteries will be being charged as long as your disconnect is in the ON position.

The purpose of the battery disconnect is to ISOLATE your batteries from all other systems.

[Workshop]

Paul,

I would agree that it sounds like you are getting the correct output from your converter, about 13.5v and the system is operatering fine from the TV.

My question on the reading you got from your batteries, 13.27v, was that with "shore power" on. It sounds like that could be the output of your converter which will make your batteries read that high. With the switch in the off position, is the battery reading different while connected to shore power.

Try reading the batteries without shore power and not connected to the TV if you haven't done that.

On MY UNIT, the power that arrives from the converter, TV and battery are all tied together at the breakers mentioned in the above responces. All are connected together with jumpers on one side of the three breakers and go different routes on the other side. IMO if everything works except with batteries, those breakers will possibly be good. I did not install a separate breaker for my switch as mine are routed through the three above.

The only connection I have going to the battery is a single wire from the three breakers. If your switch is an on/off and you can read the converter voltage on the battery, 13.5v, IMO the switch is possibly good. In my simple thought, one way in...same way out.

Depending on your voltage readings at the battery and not being there, it could be bad/weak batteries or a bad switch. Let us know what the readings are...and if we can think more!

Hope something helped

[BusterPSD]

Thanks for the quick replies.
The 13.27V reading was while on shore power. I will check the battery while off shore power and will check all fuses and breakers.
After this I will get back with findings.

Thanks again.

Paul

[Workshop]

Morning,

If you have the Charge Wizard on your converter, sounds like you have the 91-- or 92-- series converter from Progressive. If so, the two fuses on the front of the converter are for reverse battery protection and if the converter is powering the unit the fuses should be ok. Installed the Charge Wizard on my 91-- several weeks ago, should be a nice upgrade.

These are the volt readings I'm interested in:
...battery reading, shore power on, switch in On position ______v
...battery reading, shore power on, switch in Off position______v
...battery reading, shore power off, switch in On position______v

As I have an older unit, did the disconnect switch come with your unit?

Hope something helped,

[BusterPSD]

Workshop, here are the readings you requested.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">These are the volt readings I'm interested in:
...battery reading, shore power on, switch in On position - 14.42v
...battery reading, shore power on, switch in Off position - 13.12v
...battery reading, shore power off, switch in On position - 12.78v

As I have an older unit, did the disconnect switch come with your unit? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the switch came with the unit.

I checked for voltage through the disconnect switch. With it in the on position, reading was 12.78. In the off position, reading was 0. Both readings were with the shore power off.

How do you check to see if the three breakers are operating? I checked all the connections and everything seems ok.

We have dry camped before and everything has worked fine. It just started a week or so ago. I tried to use the lights and pump when not hooked up to shore power and had no juice. We usually stay in campgrounds, so don't know for sure how long it has been like this.

Thanks again for all the help.

Paul

[wrongway]

Question on what type of Battery Disconnect you have.?. Is it a off/on dial type, or is it a push button relay style disconnect? Ofcourse without electricity hooked up, you will want the disconnect in the "on" position for power to get to the coach. To check the circuit breakers place a light tested on each side of the post to see if you have power on each side. If you have on one side and not the other, then either the 12vt circuit breaker has gone bad or it is a "Manual Reset Breaker". If it is a manual, you will find on the end of the breaker a small reset button,(about the size of a pencil head). Push this button and it will reset itself.
One other thing that you can check it to see if you have power at your fuse panel. If not then work backwards to find where the break is in the system to where the lose in the 12 vt would be.

Good Luck and hope you find something to resolve the issue.

[wrongway]

Something Else you can attempt is to see with the unit PLUGGED INTO AC, is to disconnect the wiring at the battery and see if you have 12vt coming to the batteries. If Not then either you converter has gone bad or the fuses on the end of the converter are bad. Something else to attempt... With the batteries unhooked you should be getting approx. 13.5 vt. at the end of the positive lead.

[Workshop]

Paul,

Thanks for the voltage readings. You confirmed what I suspected from your post. You stated that "the Charge Wizard says everything is ok. Batteries read 13.27v with a meter." With a voltage reading that high, it appeared that you must have been getting a charge from the converter, which indicates the switch was passing current.

What I understood to be correct:
...everything works correctly when connected to shore power/converter.
...everything works correctly when connected to the TV.

The thoughts have been that the battery switch or a dc breakers could be bad. It is my reasoning that it could be your batteries.

The voltage readings at the battery:
...14.42v__battery reading, shore power on, switch in ON position. Normal charge voltage for Charge Wizard.
...13.12v__battery reading, shore power on, switch in OFF position. Normal static charge on battery when charge has been removed.
...12.78v__battery reading, shore power off, switch in ON position. Basic battery voltage.
...12.78v__reading through disconnect in ON position, 0v in OFF position.

These readings would indicate that the disconnect and wire from the dc breakers to the battery are working correctly. The 14.42v indicates charging. 13.12v when disconnected. 12.78v with switch ON__0v OFF. IMO the switch would be functioning correctly.

The dc breakers I likewise believe to be good as they work correctly when connected to shore power/Converter and the TV.

On MY unit, the three breakers are located near the converter. As has been mentioned earlier, they are a small retangler unit with two terminals. On the input side, on MY unit, all three breakers are connected together with jumper wires. The output side has different wires routed to "places". Believe to slides, dc voltage fuse panel, etc. ALL sources of power, converter, TV and battery are all connected on the input side. IMO, if a breaker is bad it "should" be bad with all sources of power, as they are all dc volts and all connected to the same place.

I check my breakers by reading the input and feed side of the breaker with a meter. You should read whatever power source is being used. In your case, I would use the battery first with shore power removed. Read your battery first to obtain your reference voltage, then read both sides of the breaker and compare the readings. If you get 0v or bad readings, as a step further, might check them again with shore power on. Voltage will be 13.5v or higher using the converter. If you find a bad breaker, I would remove power, remove the wires from both terminals and read for continuity. As stated, if they are operating with other sources, I believe them to be good.

It is possible for a battery to read correctly, 12.78v, and be bad under load. Not knowing the age or condition of your batteries with everything being the same, I would guess they might be failing under load. Another possiblity would be the switch passing static voltage but likewise failing under a load. Not knowing what type disconnect is installed.

I would try installing another battery to confirm or rule out the battery.

As a last resort, If I had to, as a boomdock troubleshooter... Using safety precautions:
...disconnect the leads from the battery, NO shore power, using jumper cables connected to the TV battery, connect to the units + and - leads. Check the system.

Hope something helped.

Chris

PS, ExcelRVGuy or wrongway, would it be possible for me to get a basic wire diagram of the units as they are wired on the dc power side. Such as...where converter is mounted, dc breaker # of and location, type disconnect used, etc. Mine is a 2001, sounds like somethings are the same but different. Thanks

ChiefJohn: haven't forgotten the post, been busy and thinking which could always be a problem.

[BusterPSD]

Workshop & others,

Thanks again for all your suggestions. Again, I checked all connections, took all readings and everything seems OK.

Then I decided to go back to square one. I thought about the 'olden days', as my kids say. When my car wouldn't start, I would check the battery connections. Duh! I noticed some corrosion on the battery posts. It wasn't much, but what the heck, I figured I'd clean them and see what happens.

Well, long story short, I now have power with shore line off and not connected to TV! Why didn't I think of that sooner?

This was a great lesson in futility, but I got to interact with a great bunch of fellow RV'ers. Thanks again for all your help.

Paul

[Workshop]

Paul,

Sometimes its the simple things that get us. Likewise has been fun and if nothing else, made us think. Most important, everything is fine.

[HB Phil]

That once happened to me. I remember being surprised. I mean it just doesn't seem possible that oxidation could infiltrate a clamped battery post enough to block all electrtical contact.

Many a repair shop has made out on unsuspecting customers by claiming to replace batteries, starters, solenoids, generators or alternators and regulators - when all that was needed was about 10 swipes with wire brush!

Another one was the old style radiator cap. Lot's of folks have shelled out $$$ thinking that they got their head gaskets replaced (and heads milled and valves seats grinded in the process), to cure water loss. But, all that was really needed was a new $4.00 radiator cap.

Amazing what a little steam cleaning and orange engine paint can do to old parts.