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Old 12-18-2017, 10:13 AM   #1
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Possible answer to unusual XTA tire wear

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Originally Posted by drfife View Post
Here's a pic of one of the Michelin XTA's I replaced in June 2016 after less than 4 years of service and 50K+ miles. All four looked similar.
Original 'Tires' thread was closed so I started this one to explain something that may be of interest.

After discussing tire speed ratings in another thread, I called Michelin about the 'J' speed rating on the XTA tire. Some posters I have read on various threads act like the speed rating is the Holy Grail and to exceed it is subjecting yourself and anyone else on the road to potential danger. During the discussion, the Michelin tire specialist mentioned something that struck a chord. Now I am just reporting a Reader's Digest version on what the tire specialist at Michelin related to me and am not making any personal judgment.

I said, I had a question about my 215/75R17.5 XTA tires. He started by explaining that the tire was a 18 ply tire and was for heavy regional use. He asked what I was using them on and I told him a 5th-wheel RV with two 7500 lb axles. He said that was a lot of tire for the load. He asked what psi was I inflating the tires and I said 90 lbs. He said that was good.

I asked if the 62 mph speed rating on my XTA is written in stone? He said that 62 mph is the speed the tire is certified to perform safely. I told him I usually drive at the speed limit but not more than 75 mph. He stated that I could safely drive at 65 mph. He also stated I could drive 70 mph for a short period of time, but he wouldn't recommend driving 75 mph. He stated anything over 65 mph can create a side-to-side vibration in the tire that will cause cupping and shorten the life of the tire. Remembering the previous thread on tires, I asked him if anything else can cause cupping. He stated that a worn suspension could and over-inflating the tires causes the same side-to-side vibration.

That's the gist of it. Below is the thread I mentioned above, if interested. Post #71 is my post about my research on tire speed rating that the tire specialist at Michelin in part verified.

P.S. The speed rating on the XTA is certified at 62 mph for 10 minutes. That is the testing time interval to determine that the tire is safe at that speed. So, if your trip is longer that 10 minutes, you are riding on non-certified tires.

What speed do you usually go?
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:41 PM   #2
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Michelin customer service was nice and helpful when I contacted them, initially.

Later they decided using XTA's was a misapplication on my Excel. When I told them they were OEM, discussion ceased.

I won't buy another Michelin for a towable.
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Old 12-18-2017, 06:28 PM   #3
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It is really interesting to me that a tire discussion shows up here from time to time talking about the Michelin XTA 17.5 tire. I now have had my Wild Cargo for 5 years ( taking possession in October of 2012 brand new). My tires still look like new. The only blemish is flat spots due to an emergency stop in October 2017 on I-10 near the AL-MS border when a vehicle accident occurred directly in front of me and I was luckily enough to maneuver around. I maintain a tire pressure of 115 lbs and use a TPMS system to view the temperature and tire pressure while traveling at a speed of 68-70 mph. Please keep in mind that when I have both motorcycles loaded (a CanAm Spyder and an Harley 1200 Sportster that there is quite a load on the 6 tires. I can only wonder why, and am very thankful, that I have not had any tire problems. And I am looking, in the near future, of replacing them with the same tire. Maybe I have just been lucky.
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Old 12-18-2017, 08:43 PM   #4
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I had zero problems with mine. Date code was 07 when I bought the Wild Cargo in 2009. I didn't catch till after I own the rig a year or so. To bad Petersons keep their tires up to date. I have towed over 30,000 miles and they finally started to weather check this year. I thought about replacing them last year before we went to Alaska put thought I would chance it. Never had problem with them.

I put another set this last October so we'll see how they hold up
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:14 PM   #5
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The Michelins that came with my 13 had a date code of 2011, can't remember the week. Last spring the front 2 were developing some cupping on the inner treads. Since we got the Winslow in June 2012 most of my driving was at 65, sometimes up to 68 if we were traveling with our friends. I ran 85psi in mine based on the Michelin website for the tire's load capacity. Even at the minimum 75psi the load capacity of the tires far exceeded my 12,500 pounds on the axles (12,500 on the axles, 3100 pin, fully loaded for a long trip). The 85 was just because I didn't feel comfortable with the minimum pressure.

I changed them out in June to some Hankook Th22's, which are trailer service tires with an H rating which upped the speed rating to 68 mph. I got them based on Russell's recommendation and because the price for them is much better than many. Also the dealer I bought them from highly recommended them, and they carry many brands. Right now I'm running 110psi. I haven't been able to find a load chart for them. We've put about 5K miles on them and so far so good. They appear to be very well made and the speed rating is closer to how I drive.
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rburke8 View Post
It is really interesting to me that a tire discussion shows up here from time to time talking about the Michelin XTA 17.5 tire.
Wow, I wonder if it has to do with the fact that the XTA tires were OEM. Just disseminating information that may shed light on previous abnormal tire-wear discussions.

The tires on our EXCEL are still in good shape also but they only have a little over 10,000 miles on them and we also bought our trailer in Fall of 2012. Don't know if I will go back with the XTA tires. The Michelin tire specialist stated that a new 17.5 tire has been developed, the X MULTI™ Z 17.5. He stated this is a 'softer' tire compared to the XTA and has a max load of 3750 lbs at 102 psi. The tire has a speed rating of 'M' with a max speed of 81. The load rating is more in-line with the 7500 lbs axles on our EXCEL. I'm a little concerned that the weight on the kitchen side may exceed the 3750 lb max. Will need to find a scales in the DFW area with the ability to weight each tire individually whether it has 4 pads or if there is side access to weight one side at a time.

Another factor is the cost. Not many places selling the tire locally and the price range I have seen online is around $500 to $600 each. When the time comes to replace the tires maybe a better/cheaper tire will be available.

Below is the info on the X MULTI™ Z 17.5.

Tire and Retread Selector | Michelin Truck
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:22 AM   #7
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My XTAs are 6+ years old (7 years DOT date) and have been great . They probably have about 35K miles and tread wear is fine. I started out running 125 lbs and quickly down to 110 lbs. due to ride. I believe the wear pattern above is due to a shifting belt issue, which is very common as they age. I have seen a few with super low mileage though. When you first look at it, they appear to have a scalloped pattern like the tire is severely out of balance and bouncing down the road. You see this in cars and light trucks but trailers are way too heavy to bounce the tire no matter of how badly they are out of balance (one reason why they don't balance from factory). If I still were in our rig I would be replacing the tires with one's Doc referred to or the Sailuns S637. H rated which are way cheaper than the XTAs and have great reviews. Simple as that.
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Old 12-19-2017, 02:29 PM   #8
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My XTAs are 6+ years old (7 years DOT date) and have been great . They probably have about 35K miles and tread wear is fine. I started out running 125 lbs and quickly down to 110 lbs. due to ride. I believe the wear pattern above is due to a shifting belt issue, which is very common as they age. I have seen a few with super low mileage though. When you first look at it, they appear to have a scalloped pattern like the tire is severely out of balance and bouncing down the road. You see this in cars and light trucks but trailers are way too heavy to bounce the tire no matter of how badly they are out of balance (one reason why they don't balance from factory). If I still were in our rig I would be replacing the tires with one's Doc referred to or the Sailuns S637. H rated which are way cheaper than the XTAs and have great reviews. Simple as that.
Rockin', you are correct that there are several issues that can cause tire tread cupping. However, in Doc's case, all four of the tires on his trailer were exhibiting tire tread cupping. I can understand one or even two tires cupping due to some type of tire failure, but all four???? I never was quite satisfied with the explanations on the reason for the cupping. The only one that I would have considered is worn suspension. But I don't think Doc was even that rough on his trailer to wear the suspension out in 4 years.

When the tire specialist explained that speeds over 65 mph and over-inflated tires can cause a side-to-side vibration, and the resulting cupping, was a characteristic of the XTA tire, that made sense to me. That would explain why all four tires were cupping.

As you would say, 'Just sayin''.
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Old 12-19-2017, 02:44 PM   #9
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Carl, did the Michelin rep say is was not a misapplication to use the new, softer 17.5" tire on a 5th wheel?
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:41 PM   #10
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Carl....I've seen several that had one or two with the cupping. My friend Randy, had only one with maybe 5-6K on them. Doc, I didn't think ALL of your XTA were cupped. I thought like 2 maybe.....please clear this up. Off to our 19 day cruise to Pamana tomorrow!!! We're excited.
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drfife View Post
Carl, did the Michelin rep say is was not a misapplication to use the new, softer 17.5" tire on a 5th wheel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockintom View Post
Carl....I've seen several that had one or two with the cupping. My friend Randy, had only one with maybe 5-6K on them. Doc, I didn't think ALL of your XTA were cupped. I thought like 2 maybe.....please clear this up. Off to our 19 day cruise to Pamana tomorrow!!! We're excited.
Doc, he never said the X Multi Z or the XTA was a misapplication. He did say the XTA was a lot of tire for our size trailer. He stated the X Multi Z would be a better fit. The rep knew it was a 5th wheel RV and that I had two 7500 lb axles.

Rockin', the sentence above the picture in post #1 confirms that.
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:21 PM   #12
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Off to our 19 day cruise to Pamana tomorrow!!! We're excited.
Rockin'

Remember, your on vacation. Don't try to tweak or improve the ships systems. I can see you now, down in the engine room trying to get a few more HP out of the engines. Over the years I have been impressed by how you tweaked and upgraded your land yacht. Have a good time and keep your feet dry. Post some pictures when you can.

Carl
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:25 PM   #13
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Thanks Carl.....I missed that. When I talked with Doc on the this in the early days I don't recall that ALL his were this way. I've seen a bunch of them. I just haven't suffered the issue. Thank goodness. Mine look like new, except for some minor sidewall cracking, which is appropriate for their age. I do keep the 303 on them which helps preserve them.
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Old 12-19-2017, 06:07 PM   #14
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Carl, you have my number! Had a guy on this forum (Virg) that once told me that if I couldn't find something wrong on my rig....I'd go out and break something to have something to fix!!!! Ha. You guys have a great Christmas too! Off I go!
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