Tow Vehicle Choices

[JDT]

Brad, I went with a dually because of my pin weight. All of the Ford single rear wheels in a Platinum or King Ranch had a payload capacity of around 3200 to 3300 pounds according to the little yellow sticker. My hitch weight is almost 3100. Add in my wife and I, my hitch, 25 gallons of diesel in my auxiliary tank, a few tools and other stuff and 2 Boston Terriers and all of a sudden we are pushing 4000 pounds.

I've gotten kind of used to the size of the beast but it would be nice to have something smaller to run around in. I just was not comfortable with being that much overloaded. As far as handling, we pulled our Excel the first 3 years with a GMC 3500 single and it did fine.

[rockintom]

Brad,

Do you have the suspension leaf spring perches on the rig set at the lowest hole (highest height setting)?

[BRS50]

Tom,
I have the MoreRyde IS so no leaf springs.

[rockintom]

Oh yeah.....that's right....I knew that and forgot. I don't know if they have a height setting.

[BRS50]

Tom,
I did check with MorRyde and there are height settings on the IS. I'll have to get under the trailer and see where they are set. Hopefully Peterson didn't install the suspension at the highest setting. If not it's a major job to add riser tubes.

[rockintom]

Brad, thanks for the update. I think a post with pix would be in order when you do the change.

[DucBill]

Brad you might want to wait til June for '20 GMs which will have a L5P w 10spd Allison trans and 3.54 12" diffs. Should be able to build order online in March from what I heard. Like you I'm GM fan and my '15 Sierra SLT DCDA 3500 DRW has been reliable TV pulling our 40' Fuzion 18k# rig. Good luck with your search.

[BRS50]

As many advised I put the new truck on hold till the 2020 GM's arrived. This is a little long but I've done extensive research and test driving (2020 GMC Denali and SLT, Chevy LTZ and High Country, 2019 Ford F350 Platinum twice) and wanted to share my detailed impressions. Sorry RAM guys I’m a long time GM man that would consider Ford but Fiat/Chrysler is a bridge too far for me. There is a lot to like about both trucks but after lagging Ford for 3 years GM jumped out in front IMO with the 10 speed, auto 4x4, heads up display and all the tech towing features on the F-350 since '17 like Adaptive Steering, trailer cameras and TPMS. The 2020 F350 has the 10 speed, not sure on auto 4x4. Auto 4x4 seems great for unexpected traction situations and the heads up display was very nice you don't realize how often you shift your vision down to the gauge cluster. It can display speed, speed limit, some nav, phone, audio, cruise and more.

Big disappointment on the GM was lack of Adaptive Cruise Control. With forward distance sensing and forward braking already on the truck you know GM will add it in 2021, like the new in ’19 1500 which got it this year. Typical dumb GM, lagging behind Ford on this key feature for another year. Ford has a few other exclusive items like the double sunroof, massage seats and power steps but GM's corner bed steps were a plus especially since the forward ones will replace the wheel to wheel steps bars I have now to reach the lock and brake safety cable on the hitch. The bed 120v outlet was a nice feature too.

The pro tailgate on the GMC was less impressive in person than the advertising. The step feature, which was had the most interest for me, is almost useless unless your 6’ 5”. The step is way to high and the railing angled inward from the left bed corner is tough to reach. You need a step to the step, my current $100 Weston Folding Tailgate Ladder is much easier to use. The other configurations are just ok, the step as a bed extender stop in the horizontal mode was not very tall to retain items and the other positions were meh. Good luck on cost if it’s damaged, sometimes a $3 HD Bunji cord or strap doesn’t need to be replaced with a $3000 tailgate. It's power down only too. For me the Chevy's power down and up tailgate looked better especially after you hitch and have to close the gate from the side or unhitch and can close it from the cab. Ford's fold out step wasn't great either, way to high for me though it had a better railing at the back of the gate. Not sold on the power steps either, inconvenient if you’re not opening the door and using them and I’ve heard failure/repair complaints online. The GM fixed step bars and front corner bed steps were better in combo. Another GM plus, the new interior bed wall design really enlarges the bed space side to side. Both these trucks are a lot bigger than the previous versions. The 10” of additional length are mostly in the larger cab and a little longer bed. I don’t carry passengers very often but there’s much more rear seat room, with the seats folded up the floor space and storage volume is great. The storage compartments in the GM rear seat backs and the built-in under seat storage bin in both trucks look useful too. I was worried about my pin box height but these taller trucks somehow have the same or even lower bed height than earlier models so that shouldn’t be an issue.

I did like the ride on the GM trucks better with the independent front suspension. Unfortunately most Ford and many GM dealers order the snow plow prep, high idle switch and upfitter switches on Fords. The ones I drove with plow prep front end felt slight harsher on the ride quality. The usual dealer profit enhancement – seriously who’s putting a snowplow, salt spreader or PTO device on $75-83k truck? Didn’t get a chance to compare if the off road packages changed the ride, all my test drivers had that option. Every review knocks the GM interiors but I don't totally agree. GM might have a little more plastic below the belt line but some of that can be easier to maintain. I found the GM was a little more sedate with a lot less metal. Some might like the Ford with a lot of metal trim and the giant SUPER DUTY over the glove box. Ford had a little edge on the seats but like my current SUV their exclusive massage seats are underwhelming. Not sure if it was just my imagination but Denali and High Country seats seemed a little better than LTZ and SLT. Infotainment systems seemed pretty close and the trailering app features and cameras look very useful. GM even has some set up enabling remote control of trailer items like AC but their example of cooling the trailer before you arrive seems a little far-fetched.

In the end it comes down to two big things for me. Number one is the payload. We've had the SRW/DRW debate here and even long time SRW advocate Doc Fife went Dually. I'm still sold on the touring vehicle aspect and do at least 2/3 of my mileage unhitched so I'm an SRW man all the way. The GM wins big time in this comparison. I was hoping the 2020 Ford would match this key SRW spec with the 10 speed added but it doesn't. The GM with a 12100# GVW is WAY above Ford's 11400#. Though their curb weight is higher the GM 4x4 CC SB payload is 4185# and only 3900# for Ford. With my 3200# pin weight, full tank, hitch, kayaks, passenger and some other gear the GM is just above my total and the Ford short by almost 300#. BIG difference especially since I want to add a larger replacement tank like my current truck, the extended range has been a great addition for me. I question the tow ratings they put on these trucks, telling me I can tow a 22500# FW that will have 20% (4500#) of that on the pin doesn’t compute with these payload specs.

Finally you have to look at price of course. The GM offerings are cheaper, although it’s hard to associate cheap with $75000 plus MSRP’s. Equipped the way I'd like it a Denali was just under $80k with the SLT at about $78k. At $75k+ the LTZ was the “cheapest” but the controversial styling was not for me. The High Country look was a lot more appealing, still a little different but it grew on me and I actually liked it better than the Denali grill. With all the Denali features but at $77k+ it would be my choice. The Ford is great truck with a nice clean look but way north of GM prices. A 2020 Ford Platinum similarly equipped is $83000! A very loaded Lariat is just under $80k. GM dealers are getting more inventory with the strike solved and seem to be offering better discounts. The Ford 2020's haven't shown up at dealers yet, there are great deals on ’19 F350’s but no 10 speed is a deal breaker.

I’m really considering waiting till 2021 for Adaptive Cruise on the GM but I recently sold my business and with my new freedom we're ready to do some serious traveling in 2020. I'm not sure I want to push my 2012 Chevy with 65k miles another 10-12000 since it's worth quite a bit on trade and waiting will only cost me more. I've found ACC is great but only in play 15-20% of my miles in my ’15 Benz GL and I see some limits. You see traffic ahead long before the radar cruise does. My SUV comes up fast on slow traffic and slows later than you would. Not sure if I want that when towing, though in tow mode following distance is extended. It is outstanding in lots of situations including slow or stop and go traffic and with plenty of interstate travel ahead I'm torn about going without it.

These diesel HD trucks really do hold their value though. My ’12 had a $62200 MSRP and the $32500 trade value is over half that 8 years later. Similar % on my $43400 MSRP ’04 Sierra 2500, traded for $21500 in ’12 and paid about $34000 to get into the current truck. Keeping them clean with reasonable mileage can help offset sticker shock pricing on your next truck. I’d love to hear opinions on towing using ACC or any other thoughts on this expensive vehicle decision, just don't tell me to go dually.

[JDT]

Brad, nice write up. I won't quote you to save some space but I am bailing on my dually and have also been going back and forth on what to do. I am a long time GM guy but switched to Ford in 17 because of the advanced features they offered. I was very excited when I saw the new GVWR ratings for the GM singles last summer. My first thoughts were finally a single rear wheel, diesel, 4X4 that will handle my load. I was ready to order one until I found out there was no adaptive cruise. It is the one feature I will never be without, on any vehicle. I use it 100% of the time I'm on the highway, towing or not. It really shines for me in congested traffic and construction with constant back and forth speeds. I have it set for a safe distance which is constant so I'm never following too close. Any braking is solid and on the Ford it applies the trailer brakes the same as if I applied the brakes myself. I see some folks call these safety features "nannies" but at 72 years old I call them helpful.

I like my dually when towing but it also has to double as my personal vehicle, which I don't like so much. It's been a while since I had a single but it seems I was better at backing the fifth wheel and my bass boat than I am with the dual. Those wide hips block my vision a little more than I like.

So, after backing off the GM I waited for Ford to announce their ratings for the 2020's, which is mainly a refresh except for the new diesel, the new 7.3 gas and the 10 speed transmission. I was disappointed the crew cab short bed diesels kept their 11,500 GVWR. So Ford could claim bragging rights on highest payload for a single rear wheel they did offer one specific model with a 12,400 GVWR. It has to be an F350 diesel, 4X4, long bed, crew cab with 20 inch wheels and all terrain tires. Base payload is 4580 pounds. I don't really want a long bed but finally decided I could compromise. The advantage is it comes with a 48 gallon fuel tank instead of the 34 on the short beds. I have really grown to appreciate the larger tank on my dually.

I ordered a Platinum on 10-18 and have a build week of 12-2. It will have the 12,400 GVWR and I'm pretty sure over 4K payload. My dually King Ranch lost 533 pounds of payload due to the options. The Platinum will have basically the same options except this time I did not get the sun roof that never gets opened. I am going to shed some pounds by not carrying my 25 gallon auxiliary anymore as I have found I rarely use it. That will give me a cushion under the payload.

Pricing is higher than a Denali but I have X plan pricing which is invoice less .004% plus $275 admin fees or Costco which I understand will be about $600 under invoice. I'm a life member of the Disabled American Veterans which has the X plan plus an additional $1k but I also have a $2500 personal cash offer which I got in the mail from Ford. The DAV $1k and $2500 pco expire 1/02 so I think I will get it in time. I'm not sure if they can be combined so if they can't I will use the Costco pricing and the pco. I am very pleased with the offer on my trade so the gap is not so bad. I may even try to sell it myself and maybe do even better.

I did see an add from Costco today that you can get a $700 or $300 Costco gift card, depending on the level of membership, if you purchase a GM heavy duty truck.

[BRS50]

Jim,
I’m with you on the Adaptive Cruise, it’s a must have option. I was also excited about a GM SRW with the payload needed for a big FW so the lack of ACC is very disappointing. I sure thought Ford would match on payload and figured I’d be making the move to a 2020 F350. At 250” the new short bed crew cabs are a big jump from the old 240”. I’d agree that a SRW LB with that payload spec is a better compromise compared going DRW but 266”, 26” longer than my current truck, is just too big for me.

Big dilemma with all the travels planned in the coming year. The Ford 3900# payload makes me wary of going F350, especially if I add the replacement tank. If I go GM now without ACC I know I’ll be cursing those GM corporate geniuses on most of those miles. It is one of many advantages in a new truck and the other features will enhance our travels so I’m reluctant to do the trips in our current truck and then trade it for less down the road. I’ve got a tough decision to make.

Payload Calculation
Pin Weight – 3200#
Fuel - 250#
2 Passengers - 310#
Pullrite Hitch - 215#
Modular Kayak Bow Sections - 50#
Additional Cargo - 50#
Total - 4075#

Larger Tank - 60#
Extra Fuel - 140#
New Total - 4275#

[drfife]

After 3 years of driving the 3500HD I am perfectly happy with the DRW. It's really not much different maneuvering than the standard 6.5' bed SRW.

I no longer worry about weight on rear tires like the SRW. It's much easier finding a DRW than an SRW 3500 in Texas.

You could increase load capacity on SRW rear tires by going with 19.5's.

I'd advise getting a DRW.

[BRS50]

Doc,
I’ve been very comfortable with the SRW towing performance in the 5 years we’ve had the Excel. With the new 12100# GVW and 4185# payload capacity on the GM SB I’d have less concern. On a recent trip fitting into tight parking in Berlin and Ocean City, MD I was reminded why I prefer the SRW for unhitched operation. I always make sure my tire pressures are correct and have TPMS. Since the tires are the weak link I’ll take your advice from a few years ago and get a little cushion on the tire capacity by going up to 285/65R20 AS. They come with 275/65R20 AT standard and I’d rather run on AS tires any way.

Does your dually have Adaptive Cruise?

Brad

[drfife]

No. I don't have adaptive cruise control.

Adaptive cruise control has zero appeal to me.

[JDT]

All these features now offered are probably not necessary to guide a vehicle down the road. We did it without them for many years. I just look on them as tools that maybe help me do a better job at being a safe driver. I honestly can only think of one instance when adaptive cruise would have saved me a lot of stress. We were in Salt Lake City with 2 other couples. We had a motor home at the time and towed our 08 Acadia. I had the cruise set at 70 on an interstate with all 6 of us on board and did not see traffic coming to a halt in front of me. One of my passengers screamed and right before I plowed into the car in front of me the left lane cleared enough for me to swerve over and stop without hitting anything.

I also think ACC makes the drive more relaxing. I'm not constantly adjusting my speed to traffic. In September we took an 800 mile trip to Brainerd, Mn with some friends. He has a motor home and tows an Acadia that limits his speed to 65. I set my cruise and followed him the whole way staying the same distance behind him. I actually got the best mileage I have ever gotten. 11.4 for that leg of the trip. To be honest the good mileage probably had more to do with the tailwind we had the whole way.