Tow Vehicle Question

[dTardis]

We looked a windslow 31SKM and really liked it a lot! We plan on outfitting it with may options including the motorcycle lift.
We have looked at ether a F-350 or a 450 truck to pull this rig, but I thought I would come here for some advice. We are a little cost sensitive, but there is not a lot of difference between these two trucks.

[ChiefJohn]

A suitable equipped F-350 (dually) will be fine IMO.

[redwing1]

Our F-350 6.0 Diesel (dually) handled our L35TKE with no problem, be sure to get the camper pkg so you don't have to add air bags. You don't have the insurance hunting problem with the F-350 that you will have with the F-450.

[TXiceman]

You may want to reconsider the motorcycle lift. It puts a lot of extra stress and weight on the rear of the trailer frame. Also it will cause the pin weight to reduce and possibly cause some undesired ride characteristics. Excel offered the motorcycle lift at one time and I believe no longer offer this. A fellow lost his motorcycle.

How about some specs on the trailer. Normally a 31' 5er will work with a 3/4 ton truck, but a 1 ton would give you more room for future growth.

Ken

[BookIIRoadtrash]

You will be fine with the F-350. I would go for the dually for side wind stability when towing.

[rockintom]

If you go with the F-350, make SURE you get the "Tow Boss" package with the 4.30 gear. You'll be real happy happy you did when you go up a few mountain passes. The 4.88 gear would be a little much and not necessary (hard on fuel on a day to day basis) for what your pullin'. rockin'

[Jim & Bona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockintom If you go with the F-350, make SURE you get the "Tow Boss" package with the 4.30 gear. You'll be real happy happy you did when you go up a few mountain passes. The 4.88 gear would be a little much and not necessary (hard on fuel on a day to day basis) for what your pullin'. rockin'

I'll second Tom's recommendation on the F-350 w/Tow Boss (4.30 ratio, etc.) for your reqt.

[ExcelRVGuy]

TxIceman's statement isn't accurate. To my knowledge there has never been a person lose their motorcycle off a hydralift. We still are offering it on all units 33' and below. We discontinued it on the 35' and above because the distance from the rear axle to the lift platform was long enough that it caused excessive bouncing and whipping of the bike.

As for losing pin weight, we've found about a 3 to 1 ratio in pin weight reduction. i.e. if you put a 900# combination (bike & hydralift) on the back, you'll see about a 300# weight reduction on the pin. Then when you add back in your payload, some water, perhaps a generator, and/or a washer/dryer, the pin weight reduction is not really much of a factor.

We have put on several in the past few months. They seem to be gaining popularity again.

If you have questions you can call me at the factory. I'll be happy to help.

Bryan

[davydee]

dTardis: It just doesn't sound like you'd need a F450 from what you've described. When we were making the decision on tow vehicle, the break point for a Ford was a GCW of 26,000 lbs for the 2009 models. If you were under 26,000 lbs, the F350 dually was fine. Of course when we were trying to make the decision (and as we didn't have the fiver), everything was estimated. Seemed like my calculations would come out something like 26,005 lbs. As were were looking at the longer, heavier trailers, we settled on the F450.

If you do chose a F350, see if you can get one with the wide track front end. We have that on our truck and the turning radius is better than we had on our older 2001 F250.

Also, don't hesitate to call Bryan and the factory if you think you need to. They're great folks and there's no dumb questions.

[RustyJC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExcelRVGuy TxIceman's statement isn't accurate. To my knowledge there has never been a person lose their motorcycle off a hydralift.

Bryan,

Please refer to post #5 in THIS thread.

Rusty

[RustyJC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExcelRVGuy As for losing pin weight, we've found about a 3 to 1 ratio in pin weight reduction. i.e. if you put a 900# combination (bike & hydralift) on the back, you'll see about a 300# weight reduction on the pin. Then when you add back in your payload, some water, perhaps a generator, and/or a washer/dryer, the pin weight reduction is not really much of a factor.

The mathematics associated with the effect on pin weight are quite simple. In simplified form, it's equivalent to a see-saw (or teeter-totter). For the system to be in balance, F(L) x D(L) must equal F(R) x D(R) - that is, the force (weight of the individual) on the left side of the pivot times the distance out from the pivot the individual is seated must equal the force (weight of the individual) on the right side of the pivot times the distance out from the pivot the individual is seated. For example, a 200 pound individual seated 3 feet from the pivot on the left side (200 x 3 = 600 lb-ft) can be balanced by a 100 pound individual seated 6 feet from the pivot on the right side (100 x 6 = 600 lb-ft).

The same principle applies in the rough sketch below. For the system to be in equilibrium, W1 x D1 must equal W2 x D2. Therefore, solving for W1 (pin weight effect), W1 = W2 x (D2 / D1).

If I add 1000 lbs of weight on the rear of the fifth wheel (W2), the effect on the pin weight (W1) will be governed by the ratio of D2 divided by D1. The weight added to the rear (W2) plus the weight removed from the pin (W1) will show up as increased fifth wheel tire and axle loading. Therefore, adding 1000 lbs to the rear of the 5th wheel could result in removing 1000 lbs from the pin weight and adding 2000 lbs to the tire and axle loading in the case where D2 equals D1. The actual measurements of D1 and D2 will, of course, establish the actual ratio.

(On Edit: For the purists, by adding the carrier and motorcycle, we've created a torque or moment equal to W2 x D2. The effect on the pin weight is a function of the length of the moment arm D1.)

Rusty

[davydee]

Rusty, is the fulcrum really at the axles?

Reason I ask is that may times I've loaded a trailer (not necessarily our Excel) behind the axles only to have the trailer "settle" vice lower the hitch weight.

David

[RustyJC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davydee Rusty, is the fulcrum really at the axles?

The trailer settles because the axle loading is being increased as I described above, but any torque or moment developed still affects the pin weight.

To illustrate, would you agree that you can stack bricks in the rear of a utility trailer until the tongue jack comes off the ground? Most of us have been there and done that, or something like it. When this happens, the tongue weight is less than zero! The trailer pivots on the axle when the rear hits the ground and the tongue points toward the sky, right?

Rusty

[Steve R.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dTardis We looked a windslow 31SKM and really liked it a lot! We plan on outfitting it with may options including the motorcycle lift. We have looked at ether a F-350 or a 450 truck to pull this rig, but I thought I would come here for some advice. We are a little cost sensitive, but there is not a lot of difference between these two trucks.

PM me if you are interested in seeing an alternative to the hydralift option. My motorcycle hauling solution works well for small to medium bikes without the weight and complexity of a hydraulic lift.

I agree with you about the differences between an F350 and an F450. Save your money as a new fully optioned F350 DRW will do the job for you. A new RAM would do the job too - possibly for less money.