WEIGHT!

[RayJay]

As a very new owner of a 33' EXCELL (and we love it!!) I am trying to make sure I am not overwieght.

We pull it with a Chevy Silverado 3500. We put in an Onon 5500 Generator and a Spendide Washer/Dryer 2100 all-in-one unit. Plus I added a Motorcycle carrier on back and a motorcycle for another 1000 pounds.

We weighed it at a California Hiway Patrol Weight Station and they came up with:
Axel #1 - 4780 lbs
Axel #2 - 6440 lbs
Axel #3 - 13740 lbs

Is the total (24,960 lbs) my total weight? Is it that simple?

And being that:

The GVWR of the Excell is 17,500.
The GVWR of the Silverado is 9,900.
For a total of 27,400

Therefore, if my total weight at the weigh station is 24,960 do I just subtract it from 27,400 and figure I am 2440 UNDER WEIGHT???

The UVW of everything is 20,610. Therefore, if I subtract this from the GVWR, it gives me 6790 lbs....for all my belongings, fule, water etc.

Does that sound right??

Anyway, if anyone can help me, I would appreciate it!!

The unit just seems to be so scarey heavy!! I cannot stop it easily and the brakes smell when I have to brake going down hills.

Thanks bunch,
Mexiray

[RayJay]

As a very new owner of a 33' EXCELL (and we love it!!) I am trying to make sure I am not overwieght.

We pull it with a Chevy Silverado 3500. We put in an Onon 5500 Generator and a Spendide Washer/Dryer 2100 all-in-one unit. Plus I added a Motorcycle carrier on back and a motorcycle for another 1000 pounds.

We weighed it at a California Hiway Patrol Weight Station and they came up with:
Axel #1 - 4780 lbs
Axel #2 - 6440 lbs
Axel #3 - 13740 lbs

Is the total (24,960 lbs) my total weight? Is it that simple?

And being that:

The GVWR of the Excell is 17,500.
The GVWR of the Silverado is 9,900.
For a total of 27,400

Therefore, if my total weight at the weigh station is 24,960 do I just subtract it from 27,400 and figure I am 2440 UNDER WEIGHT???

The UVW of everything is 20,610. Therefore, if I subtract this from the GVWR, it gives me 6790 lbs....for all my belongings, fule, water etc.

Does that sound right??

Anyway, if anyone can help me, I would appreciate it!!

The unit just seems to be so scarey heavy!! I cannot stop it easily and the brakes smell when I have to brake going down hills.

Thanks bunch,
Mexiray

[Butch50]

Welcome to the forum.

Actually it is not that simple. What you have is an over loaded truck, sorry to say. Take axle #1 and axle #2. That is the total weight on your truck. In this case you have 11200# of weight on a truck rated for 9900#. The 5er is way under its GVWR.

Butch

[RayJay]

OK......

So, don't tell me the NEW 2007 1 ton Silverado can't pull what I have?!!!

I am trying to figure out where I can reduce weight...

there is just my wife and I plus our very large breed(unfortunately!) dog (for about 400 lbs) and don't have much more in the truck.

If I reduce weight in the RV will it have any effect on the axel weight for the truck?

OR...gulp, do we need another pull vehicle? Even the dealer told me that I had enough pull with my 3500....

Thanks,
mexiray

[TXiceman]

Mexiray, Butch is giving you the straight story. You are 1300# over your trucks GVWR. You also need to look at the trucks rear GAWR (gross axle weight rating). Do you have the weight of just the truck loaded for travel?

This is a good unit to use with a 4500 or F450 chassis to have the weight carrying capacity for your pin weight.

If you try to lighten the pin weight on the trailer, you will probably get the pin so light that the truck could experience bucking or chucking.

Sorry for the bad news, but welcome to iRV2.

Ken

[motojavaphil]

Mexiray, welcome! I purchased an 07 Ram 3500 TD for a 5r that was rated to pull it or 16,000lbs or less. DW picked out another Excel we now have, GVWR 17,500, which resulted in our now owning an 08 F450. We have the stacked washer dryer and will be adding Mr Onan and a motorcycle in the rear. I studied the suspension alternatives on the Dodge and decided there was not much I could do even though I had more than enough motor. Aside from that if you had an accident and weights were looked at you might have issues both legal and liabilty wise. I hope things work out for you...Phil

[LindaH]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mexiray:
We pull it with a Chevy Silverado 3500. ... The GVWR of the Silverado is 9,900. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm wondering about the low GVWR of your 3500...is it a SRW truck? I ask because our Dodge 3500 DRW has a GVWR of 11,500#.

I'm not clear on what "Axel #3" is...is it the loaded weight of your fiver? If so, and your total weight is 24,960#, you're not only over your GVWR, but you're also over your GCWR. I don't know exactly what the GCWR is of your Chevy, but I'm sure it's not 25,000#. If "Axel #3" is the dry weight of your fiver, then once you put in supplies, you're going to be even MORE overweight!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Even the dealer told me that I had enough pull with my 3500.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If nothing else, you've learned a valuable lesson...NEVER listen to a sales person! He/she is only there to sell you the vehicle and they don't give a rip about your safety. In fact, most of them don't know anything about weight ratings!

[RayJay]

Thanks all'yall for your responses.

Yes, the Silverado 3500 4x4 is a single rear wheel. It has the duramx diesel, six speed auto with tow setting and a GAWR of 7000#s for front and 7000#s for the rear.

The weigh-in was with the truck and trailer attached and fully loaded.

Axle #1 was the truck front axle @ 4780#s.
Axle #2 was the truck rear axle @ 6440#s and axle #3 was the combined dual axle weight of the 5ver at 13740#s. We pulled off at a truck stop and asked to be weighed by the state patrol. The scale could handle only one axle or set of axles at a time.

So, my confusion is. if my GAWR is 7000#s for the front and 7000#s for the back, don't I fall within the weight rating allowed if axle #1 and #2 are under 7000#s?

With all the pics in the gallery of the last rally, all those being pulled by 5th wheelers even 2500...they can't be all under 33', can they? I just can't believe we can't pull this with what we have. Even inquiring at Excell when we bought the RV, Peterson Ind told us this was enough.

OK, in essance you are telling me that I bought a 33' Excell Limited and you can't pull it with a one-ton truck??????!!!!!!!!!!

If anyone can shed any light on this, I would REALLY appreciate it!!

THanks,
mexiray

[LindaH]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mexiray:
With all the pics in the gallery of the last rally, all those being pulled by 5th wheelers even 2500...they can't be all under 33', can they? I just can't believe we can't pull this with what we have. ... OK, in essance you are telling me that I bought a 33' Excell Limited and you can't pull it with a one-ton truck??????!!!!!!!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure you can *pull* your fiver...but can you stop it safely, particularly in a panic stop?

There are lots and lots of people pulling rigs that are too heavy for their pickups...so just because you see people doing it, doesn't mean that they aren't overweight.

Let's take our Dodge 3500 as an example (only because I have all the numbers for it).

The Dodge's GCWR is 23,000#
The Dodge's GVWR is 11,500#
The GAWR Front/Rear is 4,750#/9,350#

With a full tank of fuel, us, the dog, the fifth wheel hitch, the two Honda 2000's and the other gear we load in the truck (but *without* the fifth wheel attached) the numbers are:

Front GAW: 4,325#
Rear GAW: 3,650#
Total Weight of Truck: 7,975#
(we have 3,525# of payload before we reach our GVWR -- 11,500# minus 7,975#)

With the fully loaded fifth wheel attached (includes a full tank of fresh water), the truck's numbers are:

Front GAW: 4,325#
Rear GAW: 7,125#
Total Weight of Truck: 11,450#
(we're 50# under the GVWR)

Our fifth wheel weighed 15,125# at the time we had it weighed (GVWR = 15,000#) and our GCWR was 23,100#.

So, if we run with a full tank of fresh water (531#), we're over on the fifth wheel's GVWR and the truck's GCWR (consequently, we NEVER run with a full tank of fresh water except for the very shortest distance possible...usually that means we wait until we get to the campground to fill up). Your case is going to be worse because you have a heavier fifth wheel and a SWR truck that doesn't have as much GVWR.

[TXiceman]

The limiting factor is the GVWR and rear axle GAWR on the SRW trucks.

As for see other pulling with 3/4 ton trucks....well, just seeing someone else doing it does no make it right. You can bet 3/4 of those pulling with 3/4 ton and 1 ton SRW truck have never had them over the scales or were told by the truck/RV sales person that it will pull it fine.

There is a lot of misinformation out there on the net and via word of mouth regarding RV towing. This website has lots of knowledgeable people that base their selections and advice on sound engineering principles. Some other sites have lots of people that follow the crowd and base decisions on passion and not numbers and facts.

Yes, you can pull your trailer with a SRW, BUT you are over the manufacturers GVWR and possibly GAWR. The rig will be easier to drive and safer if you have a properly sized truck.

The two axle GAWR's do not add up to the GVWR as you may not load the truck such that the axles load evenly. So, the ratings will allow you to load the rear axle up to a specified limit, 7000# in your case, but the manufacturer still wants the GVWR on the truck under the rating.

Excels are heavy trailers and tend to run a bit heavier on the pin weight as well. So you could load some more behind the trailer axles to take some weigh off the pin. Some friends and another moderator on here had a big Jayco Designer and he was right at his GVWR on his 3500 Dodge. We always kidded his wife that if she bought anything extra while on a trip, she had to make sure it could go behind the trailer axles to keep from overloading his truck.

The truck manufactures play games with the numbers and try to make it look like they have the biggest truck. It is up to the consumer to become informed and make a reasonable decision.

When we were towing a 36.5' 5er, it had a pin weight of 2800# and the truck weighed 8000# loaded and fueled. The dually has a 11500# GVWR, so I could carry 3500# in the back of the truck. The truck handled the trailer beautifully...so bouncing, no chucking, no rolling and no wind problems. Easiest driving rig we have ever had.

We would pass SRW trucks, with similar size trailers and they were fighting to control the rig..no problem for us. with my 2002 F350 Dually, I was over on GCWR by about 1500# (21500 vs, the 20000# rating).

Until you have experienced the difference in a SRW and DRW truck on a larger trailer, you will not appreciate the difference.

So, your truck can and will pull the trailer, but you are over manufacturers ratings. Check to see if you are under on the axle rating and tire loading. It is up to you how much over the manufacturers rating you feel comfortable with.

Just be careful and have fun with your new rig.

Ken

[redcow]

Just to add more confusion, I found this on another forum.
http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-...eight-fw.shtml

I did not try it so lots of luck and hope you find good news.

Jim

[Jim & Bona]

Mexiray -

I'm surprised that no one asked you for the GCVWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating on your truck. This is the total combined weight of the trailer plus the truck (both loaded, of course). I went to the Chevey website and downloaded their "Trailering Guide" - http://www.chevrolet.com/trailering/...de_Catalog.pdf

Although I couldn't find the 3500 Silverado listed in the GCVWR tables as such, it does show up in the chart on page 8 with a maximum value of 23,500# - somewhat less the your 24,960# as weighed. I expect that rating considers DRW and the highest axle ratio. Sorry, you seem to be overloaded.

I don't know about the 2007 models for pickups, but in 2006 the only one ton truck that showed a GCVWR of more than 23,000# was the F350 with the Tow Boss Option. The problem with looking at trailer rating from the manufacturer is that somehow they seem to fail to consider the weight of the truck. In my case, the truck is rated to tow a 19,000# fifth wheel. The actual weight of the truck with a full tank of fuel, me and my wife (340#) and the hitch (nothing else!) came in at8765#. Subtracting 8765# (truck) from from my GCVWR of 26,000#, the heaviest trailer I can tow within the rating is 17,235#. The point here is that you must consider the entire truck/trailer system when sizing the various affected components including brakes, axles, suspenion, and hitch - on bothe vehicles.

Never trust a salesman in pursuit of a sale (read commission)!!!

[Jim & Bona]

Look what happens when you start and reply, break for a snack, then come back and finish to finally post. Looks like my response was obsolete by the time I posted. Sorry.

Oh well, the fact remains that the manufacturers play games with the numbers and salesmen do lie.

Goo luck.

[D and J]

The guy who sold us our first 5th wheel (30 foot Keystone) said we could pull it with our ford f150

You can always tell when a salesman is lying to you. . .it is when his mouth is moving!

No, I guess that is too harsh. When we bought our Excel out at Chetopa RV in Kansas, they made sure my truck was up to carrying our trailer. I also had an experince a few years ago looking at a Newmar 5th that had a total wieght of over 19K pounds, the dealer said he wouldn't let me tow it with the 1 ton duramax we owned at the time.