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Old 12-21-2016, 12:22 PM   #1
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Aux start solenoid wiring

If anyone could take a picture of the battery disconnect solenoid and the aux start solenoid while installed on their 2005 Damon Daybreak, I sure would appreciate any help. My problem is this, I have a black wire on the left small stud and a solid purple wire installed on the right hand small stud. Once you install the purple wire, the aux start solenoid energizes and stays energized. There is no shore power connected and the coach battery is in the disconnect mode. You can remove the negative cable from the coach batteries and the solenoid will de-energize. You can disconnect the chassis battery and it has no effect. The battery disconnect solenoid works fine. Its the aux start solenoid I am concerned about. The reason for the picture is to make sure the wires are where they should be. For some reason there was a orange wire that was cut and spliced into a yellow wire coming from the coach battery disconnect solenoid. This did not look right, at least did not look like a factory job. Maybe I should state my original concern. Last week the motorhome would not start, I tried holding the emergency start switch to help start, to no avail. I called a friend he came and gave me a jump, and all was fine. I bought a new aux start solenoid and that is when I discovered the purple wire was a constant hot. Maybe this is normal and suppose to be this way. I have read where this solenoid stays energized to charge the coach battery from the engine, till one battery gets to low then the solenoid will de-energized. But, I tested this theory by discharging the chassis battery to 11.5 volts and the solenoid stayed energized. Only de-energized when disconnecting the coach battery. What is the since in the switch, if the solenoid is going to stay energized all the time. , where does the switch come into play. I think the orange wire that was spliced, has something to do with the switch, and should be installed on one of the small studs. There is a orange wire coming from the aux start switch on the drivers panel. just a guess, a CLOSE UP picture would be nice, or someone describe the wire configuration. Thanks in advance if anyone could help.
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:29 PM   #2
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I love my Thor | Damon Outlaw!


Try this link, Hawkeye. I believe the first generation Outlaw and the Daybreak were identical from the bathroom forward. Electrical is not at all my field, but Scarab, who posted that link seems to know these systems well and might be able to help you with a pm. Good luck.
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Old 12-27-2016, 05:18 PM   #3
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Here is mine as installed on my 06 Daybreak.
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Old 12-27-2016, 08:59 PM   #4
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JeffAZ and Redapple - Thank you were both very helpful. It appears that mine is wired correctly. I just don't understand why the aux relay would be powered all the time. I understand the idea of charging batteries, but why the switch on the instrument panel, if relay is energized by coach battery, and chassis battery is dead, why the switch, it is all ready energized the relay to allow both batteries to interconnect. Oh well, way above my pay grade. I will just carry me a battery booster, and jumper cables. I will leave everything wired as it was, and like your photos. Thank you again.
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:06 PM   #5
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Hawkeye,

There are two solenoids, a disconnect relay on top and an isolator relay on the bottom.

The isolator relay is always energized to hold its position. There is a circuit board called a BIRD (Bidirectional Isolator Relay Delay). This board senses the battery voltage and will either isolate the two banks or connect them. If it senses charging voltage and the battery banks fall within the voltage range, it will connect both banks so they can charge. If one bankrolls out of the voltage range, it will isolate the banks to prevent the weak bank from further discharging the other bank. If one or both battery banks are weakness discharged, this system is not functional as it requires a minimum of 12.5 or 12.6 volts to work properly.

I hope this helps.

Bill
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:59 PM   #6
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Thanks, I think I understand that part, I battery disconnect works fine. I can disconnect the house batteries My problem started when the chassis battery would not start the engine. I used the emergency start switch and nothing happen. Had to jump the battery with another vehicle. I thought the isolator relay was the one that would interconnect the two batteries for emergency start. I got nothing when using the emergency switch. So I changed this isolator relay, that is when I noticed the relay solenoid stayed energized. I just don't understand where the emergency switch sends its power. Everyone says when you push the switch, you should hear a click sound. I'm not hearing nothing, because the solenoid is already energized closed. I wired everything back just like it came off. That emergency switch worked before, just did not work this last time. Everything looks just like your picture. I'm curious where this BIRD control board you are talking about may be located. Maybe that control the emergency start switch. I really appreciate your help. I have read how this is suppose to work, just can't figure why the emergency start switch would not work. As stated in OP I ran the chassis battery to 11.5 volts, the house battery had 13.7 volts. So, the isolator should have de-energized. Then the by pressing the emergency start switch, I should have energized this relay to interconnect the two batteries for a good engine start. I will keep trying in my spare time. It is not a big thing, I can always carry a battery booster with me if the battery fails again. But, I do want to thank you very much for more insight to this problem.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:59 PM   #7
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The board is where the fuses are in the picture. That is the BIRD.It is part of the BCC. Because of the way it is wired (off the chassis battery), if the chassis battery is low, the aux start won't work properly. The aux switch you refer to energizes the isolator relay and joins the battery banks so you can start the engine.
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Old 12-29-2016, 12:01 AM   #8
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Never run chassis battery down to 11.5. The BCC will lock and prevent the banks from joining at 12.5 or 12.6. At this point take the chassis battery out and charge it. See if it holds the charge. I had to change out the relay and the board a couple of years ago.
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Old 12-29-2016, 01:23 PM   #9
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Redapple

Maybe I'm confused or I am confusing you. I thought the purpose of the emergency start switch was to allow the house (coach) battery to assist the chassis (engine) battery to start the main engine. So if the engine battery was at 11.5 and the house battery was at 13.7, shouldn't the emergency start switch all the house batteries to interconnect to provide more current? That was my original problem. While camping overnight, the big cold spell came though, and the main engine (8.1 chevy) would not turn over or start. When I pushed the emergency start switch, and held for a moment, nothing happen. Never heard a click or nothing. I started the generator with no problem. Ran for a long time, but never help charge the engine (chassis) battery. Called a friend, he came and gave me a jump, and the engine started with no problem. The engine battery has worked fine every since. I still can not hear a click when I push the emergency start switch. but I guess I never will if the solenoid is allow energized and both batteries are fully charged. That is the reason I ran the engine battery to 11.5 to test the switch, still no effect. The relay was still energized. By theory, it should have disconnected? Right? Then when I pushed the emergency start switch, the solenoid should have energized? I'm going to run a multi-meter across the switch and follow the power and wire to its final destination. I do understand the principle behind the theory of the engine charging the house batteries while driving and disconnecting when one battery is low than the other, but that is when the emergency start switch should connect the two batteries for starting. Right? Or I'm I confusing the situation?
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:11 PM   #10
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Hawkeye,

The fundamental problem with this system is that the isolator relay is wired to the chassis battery and ignition voltage, so, if the chassis battery falls below the cutoff, the aux will NOT work. That is what I was trying to explain. This silo help a low battery, not a dead one. A resting voltage of 12.7 is considered a fully charged battery, 12.2 us 50% discharged. You should never discharge more than 50%. At 11.5 your battery is dead and the aux will NOT work because the voltage required to energize the isolator relay is not there. The two banks will remain separated. A dead battery on either side will prevent the system from working properly.

Start by charging your battery and see if the system works, if, with a fully charged battery the system works, you had a dead battery. If the system still does not work, replace the isolator relay. If still jot working it is a bad BIRD, replace the board.

I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Bill
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:00 PM   #11
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Redapple

Mine is connected to the house batteries. I can disconnect the chassis battery and the relay stays energized, disconnect the house battery the relay de-energized. I wired everything back like it was when I changed the relay. It looks just like yours and the wiring is the same in color. I agree, I think the problem is the Bird. Both batteries are fully charged and working fine now. I now carry a battery booster just in case. Do not want to rely on the emergency start switch again. I thank you very, very much for your input. Especially the photo, it confirmed that my wiring was correct. Take care, and thanks again! Maybe someday I can help you out. Stay safe, and enjoy your trips.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:21 PM   #12
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2004 Daybreak solenoid

My Daybreak is suffering the same issue...the solenoid below the battery disconnect relay stays hot after the key is turned off. My starting battery is fully charged and reads 12.8 volts. The electrical shop today found that the solenoid is what has been dragging my starting battery down after sitting for a week or so but offered no solution as to why. We did find that shutting the house battery's off and waiting for a minute or so de-energizes it and we also found that shutting off the engine and waiting for 30 seconds or so and then just bumping the starter without starting the engine also de-energizes it...so at this point I am guessing it is probably the circuit board the relay and solenoid mount to that is acting up somehow???? At least I have a work around that should keep me from having a dead starting battery again until we can get the board tested.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:40 PM   #13
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Tregaskis19

The relay is not expensive, I think I paid like 23 bucks for mine and it took like 10 15 minutes to install. I would replace the relay first, if you still have issues, go for the board.

The reason it drags the battery down is because it it cycling and drawing amps when it shouldn't.


Good Luck,
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Old 05-29-2019, 02:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tregaskis19 View Post
My Daybreak is suffering the same issue...the solenoid below the battery disconnect relay stays hot after the key is turned off. My starting battery is fully charged and reads 12.8 volts. The electrical shop today found that the solenoid is what has been dragging my starting battery down after sitting for a week or so but offered no solution as to why. We did find that shutting the house battery's off and waiting for a minute or so de-energizes it and we also found that shutting off the engine and waiting for 30 seconds or so and then just bumping the starter without starting the engine also de-energizes it...so at this point I am guessing it is probably the circuit board the relay and solenoid mount to that is acting up somehow???? At least I have a work around that should keep me from having a dead starting battery again until we can get the board tested.
Tregaskis19 -- I am having the same issue with the solenoid staying hot even after the key is off. I have a new Continuous Solenoid coming tomorrow but was wondering if you were able to fix the issue? (I know this was years ago)
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