Frozen Antifreeze

[John H...]

I wanted to make this post a while back but didn't get to it. Our MH is outside , covered and winterized. I start the engine and generator every 3 or 4 weeks. In January we had some really cold weather and days in a row below zero. Once when I was out checking things, I was very surprised to find the little bit of anti freeze I put in the toilet was frozen solid. Makes me wonder about all the plastic water lines holding this same anti freeze. Hope I don't find any surprises in the spring. Has anyone else ever found frozen AF?? This is the red stuff right out of the jug, bought at WM. John H....

[TXiceman]

John, it does not take a lot of water to thin the anti-freeze and raise the freeze point. You need to be sure and get ALL of the water out before pumping the antifreeze of pump long enough to flush out the water.

Ken

[John H...]

Ken, I am very careful about getting all the water out, but what I put in the toilet bowl was straight out of the bottle and was 100% AF. Not sure how low a temperature it protects to, unlike AF for an engine which will go to 30 or 40 below. We had a stretch of a few days below zero, but I would think the AF was good for that. A bit disconcerting if it freezes solid at a few degrees below zero. John H....

[lionel_046]

Hi John, We had the 15 below temps in Ohio as well. When I got the RV out of storge to head south (we're in Bradenton, Fl now) my antifreeze in the bowl was still liquid. I had checked th RV at 5 above and all seemed well. I think the bottles say good to 50 below. Harry

[ruppr]

Yep, if you used the Peak RV antifreeze, it's good to -50 degrees.

Best,

[John H...]

Well then, I can't understand what might have happened unless I got a bad batch. It was cold, but not 50 below. I imagined it had to protect to something pretty low below zero. Not sure of the brand, but it was the red stuff from WM. Thanks for the info, John H....

[TXiceman]

Your home freezer should be somewhere between -10 and +10 dF. Put a small plastic cup of your antifreeze in and see if it will freeze.

Ken

[John H...]

Thanks Ken, If I have any left and can find it, I will try that. John H....

[joneldbrat]

I’m certainly not a scientist on Anti-Freeze. But just a thought could it be because when you put it in the Toilet bowl it is expose to ambient temperatures. When it is in the lines it is more protected from the air. Mine does the same thing it is not frozen solid but it does turn to mush. The only reason I pour some in the bowl is to cover the seal and keep it moist and out of the air.

[Chuck Phillips]

My understanding is that the "pink stuff" does freeze, but it doesn't expand / contract with changes in temp., and therefore doesn't crack water lines, etc.

[John H...]

That's a good point. It is possible it froze being exposed, and I did put it in there to keep the gasket sealed. Also, Chuck, if it doesn't expand then it wouldn't matter too much if it did freeze in the lines. Can hardly wait for spring, I know it won't freeze then. , John H....

[John-D]

That is correct. The reason freezing water is so bad for RV plumbing is this:

Most products, including the pipes and fittings in RV's when they get colder they get smaller.. (There is a funny song called, as I recall, the smallest things known to man, that addresses this kind of thing, it is R Rated however if not X, Ok, I know the author, it's one song I'll never sing)

Water is unique in that though as it cools it too shrinks in size, at the point where it freezes it EXPANDS,, Then as it cools more the ice shrinks again.

So what does this mean?

As temps go down the pipe and the fittings get smaller and smaller and suddenly there is this expanding stuff inside, pressures can quickly go to hundreds, if not thousands, of PSI, the pipe bursts (There is no spray for two reasons, one it's a solid, and 2 you only need a very small incrtease in size to relieve the pressure) and now when you pressurize it in the spring NIAGRA FALLS

The pink stuff, not being water (Well not all water) does not expand when freezing, it continues to contract, just like the pipe and most everything else, Now the line is under a very mild vacuum and since there is a gap between the frozen slush and the pipe around it,, air rushes in to take care of the problem

NO pressure. no problem

[John H...]

Just hearing that the anti-freeze doesn't shrink is a big relief. I personally would never trust just blowing out the lines because there is always going to be a small amount of water left somewhere. John H....

[TXiceman]

Actually water expands when it freezes, not shrink.

Ken