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Old 12-19-2016, 06:51 AM   #1
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Geny & shore power

Hi ,I have a 1997 Damon Intruder,When i lose shore power i unplug the shore power and start my geny.Do i need to do this ,can i leave the shore power in and use the geny at the same time
Thanks for any advice
Merry Christmas & Happy New Yr
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:55 AM   #2
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Quote:
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Hi ,I have a 1997 Damon Intruder,When i lose shore power i unplug the shore power and start my geny.Do i need to do this ,can i leave the shore power in and use the geny at the same time
Thanks for any advice
Merry Christmas & Happy New Yr
Yes you can but it is not recommended because of a possible malfunction in the system and causing major damage electrical system

Merry Christmas
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Old 12-19-2016, 08:09 AM   #3
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The main concern when switchng power sources is having a heavy load appliance running when the transfer box switches from one input source to another (AC or electric heater, for example).
What you're doing is fine (that's the way that *I* would do it), you could also leave the cord plugged in when the shore power is out - since you obviously will have no loads on it.

When shore power returns the transfer switch will NOT switch back to shore power until you shut down the generator. So before shut down the generator turn off all heavy load appliances (this is always a good idea, regardless of whether or not shore power is plugged in). The transfer switch will switch over to shore power just a few seconds after the generator is off. Then you can plug back in and power things up as you please.

Note; for your transfer switch shore power is the default setting, but the generator has priority. Which means any time the generator is running the transfer switch will switch over to generator. When the generator is not running the switch will be set for shore power.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:18 AM   #4
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Thanks alot
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:31 AM   #5
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Thanks alot
there is no heavy load per say if AC is running ;AC unit turns off when it sees no 120V and as u know takes a couple minutes before it turns itself on

There is no danger because the ATS switches ;; I suppose it could fail but that really wont effect anything except it may not switch over and gen set would not power up as planed
I have a AGS system and when the SP quits my generator will start automatically if no ones home etc ;; its like this from the factory
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:20 PM   #6
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Two answers:

First is YES. you can indeed, in fact I do it when I loose shore power

Second is "With cautiion" One of the things that I've seen argument about is described below.

IF I were designing an automatic transfer switch, it would be able to transfer with a full, Inductive Load (And trust me you have no clue as to what that means) But I don't design them. and designing for a full inductive load... IS EXPENSIVE due to a bunch of techinical reasons and a term called "phasing" or "Phase angle"

Air Conditioner compressors do not like to be "Hot switched" (in context that means being transferred from Generator to Shore, or the other way around, while running) they really need 3 minutes of OFF time.. Water heaters and the Fridge don't mind a hot switch, The converter is ... Iffy. But Motor driven stuff.. Make sure it shuts down for at least 3 minutes when transferring.

How I do it.. Sometimes I shut off the breaker at the park end and turn it on 3 minutes after both power retuirns and the generator stops

Other times I simply kill (turn off) the main breaker inside the RV, then start or stop the generator, and 3 minutes later, Restore the main breaker. (reset, Turn on)

But it is recommended 3 minutes of OFF before you go back ON.

Final comment: Surge Guards.. TRC Surge Guard or Progressive Industries EMS units (The good ones) will hold power off for 2.5-just shy of 3 mintues in the event of a "Blink" (short loss usually lasting less than one mintue) ... The reason is two fold.. one is described above, the other has to do with the rollar coaster ride the voltage takes when everybody's A/Cs tries to restart with a full head of pressure on the compressor (not fun trust me) I highly recommend such a device.. The timing is just imprecise enough to not have an entire park trying to restart at once.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:47 PM   #7
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I don't. It's just safer to be purely one or the other.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:50 PM   #8
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How is it that the 1" square, AC compressor relay can start and stop the AC compressor thousands of times but the 8" square 30 or 50 amp transfer switch can't ?
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Old 02-24-2017, 11:09 AM   #9
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We have a 95 Damon challenger and within the operations manual it specifically says to have the shore power disconnected before starting the gen. The one time I didn't do this the gen breakers tripped. After shutting down the gen I wasn't able to get power via shore power or gen even after unplugging the shore. Ends up that the main breaker also tripped in the breaker box along with the breakers located at the gen.
So from our experience the shore is always disconnected before starting the gen.
Hope this helps.
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Old 02-24-2017, 02:24 PM   #10
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How is it that the 1" square, AC compressor relay can start and stop the AC compressor thousands of times but the 8" square 30 or 50 amp transfer switch can't ?
Maybe it can. OTOH when I was messing about in industrial controls the electricians found replacing relay contacts on motor circuits a routine chore. They were switching high currents under load so they routinely arced. The arcing would set up a cycle of pitting and more arcing until the contacts stopped closing. That was when silver and gold were cheap so the contacts were as good as one could make. Today's contact material is often as cheap as one can get away with so more arcing and pitting. Why take the chance?
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:14 PM   #11
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How is it that the 1" square, AC compressor relay can start and stop the AC compressor thousands of times but the 8" square 30 or 50 amp transfer switch can't ?
I am going to tackle this one.. the small relay starts it,, then some time later stops it,,, then some times later re-starts it,, over and over and over,, But one thing it never does is

Stop it and then try to start it like 1/30th or even 1/60th's of a second later.

Also the small one has protective devices designed to help prevent arc damage... But when the transfer switches "hot" (Under load) when the break happens. (before the make to the alternative source) the motors keep turning, this causes voltage to get kind of impressive

So it's not the current, but that voltage as the contacts near contact, and it's out of phase in most conditions as well, which ads to the grief..

If you Loose shore power.. unplug, wait 180 seconds 3 minutes) the transfer switch has no problem re-starting.

Or if you shut down before you plug in .. again for 3 minutes, there is no problem

It's the hot transfer that is the problem.
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:53 PM   #12
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It's the hot transfer that is the problem.
Yet the manufactures say you can.
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Old 02-25-2017, 07:23 AM   #13
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Yet the manufactures say you can.
Their marketing or engineering departments? ;-)

FWIW Re AGS. One is not switching the line under load. Either the shore power fails so there is no AC or the batteries get low because there is no shore power. Either way the Transfer switch is not breaking a high current load. If one has a whole house inverter that may be switching a significant load internally. Maybe one of the reasons we see Inverter failures...
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Old 02-25-2017, 09:02 AM   #14
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Their marketing or engineering departments? ;-)

FWIW Re AGS. One is not switching the line under load. Either the shore power fails so there is no AC or the batteries get low because there is no shore power. Either way the Transfer switch is not breaking a high current load. If one has a whole house inverter that may be switching a significant load internally. Maybe one of the reasons we see Inverter failures...
Agree that this application is not breaking a load, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the manufactures of transfer switchs are using off the shelf contactors to build them.

The same contactors that are used in controlling high HP air compressors and other machenery, that do switch under load.

FWIW, I read more about burnt up terminal connections, then failed contacts.
With today's builders looking at the bottom dollar and using a low pay workforce, building RVs, I blame that on shoddy workmanship and quality control. That seems to be a major complant among many RV buyers.
They get it to the dealer and let them get it right.
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