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Old 02-11-2014, 05:34 PM   #1
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Starting generator causes all house 12V to kick off

I have a early 2008 Damon Tuscany coach that is causing me problems. It’s possible that I have two compound problems.
Problem #1: The Onan QD-8000 genset requires about 40 seconds of priming before it starts. After the Genset starts, all things to appear to be operating normal etc.
Problem #2: If after pressing the ‘Start’ button and the Genset takes more than 40 sec of priming, the 12V house power disappears and the genset stops priming. I do hear a relay (could be CB) ‘click’ at the time. I believe this to be an over current trip of some sort. The Manual supplied by the Mfg very vague on the actual wiring, no help there. The only way to get things back to order is to start the coach engine and wait a few moments for a quick ‘beep’ from somewhere. After the ‘beep’ the house power is back on.
Observations:
1. Genset operates normally if it does start.
2. Fuel tank is half full but prolonged priming appears with a full tank too.
3. Coach batteries appear to be OK because the engine starts quickly.
4. Genset is on the House batteries because all four slide outs perform fine and the voltage is nominal for a charged house bank.
5. The FreightLiner volt meter is <13Vdc after starting and before the ‘beep’ and >13Vdc after.
6. I suspect that the Genset has a fuel problem to start with, filter, pump etc.
Without the proper documentation, you’re left out in the cold. Does anyone have any better ‘actual’ wiring diagram?
Any advice is welcome.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:45 PM   #2
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You may not be priming, but preheating the genset. It is a diesel after all. Since they are preheated, they may be 12V heated (most likely) and that is causing the 12VDC circuit breaker to trip.
You'll need a volt/ohm meter. I would check voltage at batteries with all things off inside. Then check voltage with someone preheating the genset and see what they do. If they volts at the battery are fine, keep running down the wires and find the circuit breaker tripping to see if you are losing voltage after a connection or something of the like.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:07 PM   #3
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According to the Onan book, it will prime with the Start button and also it the Stop is pressed and held for over 5 seconds. I can hear the electric fuel pump clicking in both conditions. Ill look up if there is a manifold heater or glow plug in the engine but I don't remember either. Batteries check at +12.4 in all cases. I'll keep looking, thanks.
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:20 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcloukota View Post
Problem #1: The Onan QD-8000 genset requires about 40 seconds of priming before it starts. After the Genset starts, all things to appear to be operating normal etc.
No problem here. It's not priming, it's pre-heating the glow plugs. This is normal for the QuietDiesel series gensets. When pushing start, if the ambient temps are low enough, the genset energizes the glow plug circuit (pre-heat) to help with ignition prior to engaging the engine starter. In very low ambient temps this can take over 60 seconds. This circuit draws up to 25 amps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcloukota View Post
Problem #2: If after pressing the ‘Start’ button and the Genset takes more than 40 sec of priming, the 12V house power disappears and the genset stops priming. I do hear a relay (could be CB) ‘click’ at the time. I believe this to be an over current trip of some sort. The Manual supplied by the Mfg very vague on the actual wiring, no help there. The only way to get things back to order is to start the coach engine and wait a few moments for a quick ‘beep’ from somewhere. After the ‘beep’ the house power is back on.
Observations:
1. Genset operates normally if it does start.
2. Fuel tank is half full but prolonged priming appears with a full tank too.
3. Coach batteries appear to be OK because the engine starts quickly.
4. Genset is on the House batteries because all four slide outs perform fine and the voltage is nominal for a charged house bank.
5. The FreightLiner volt meter is <13Vdc after starting and before the ‘beep’ and >13Vdc after.
6. I suspect that the Genset has a fuel problem to start with, filter, pump etc.
Without the proper documentation, you’re left out in the cold. Does anyone have any better ‘actual’ wiring diagram?
Any advice is welcome.
There is a dedicated feed from your house batteries directly to the genset 12VDC side. The Onan QD series requires a constant 12vdc direct from a battery source as it does not create it's own 12vdc for this purpose. This 12vdc feed probably has a circuit breaker as you mentioned above. This circuit breaker is either undersized for the amperage or is/has failing/failed. It is also possible that this breaker is inline with the house disconnect solenoid in some manner causing the house disconnect solenoid to be toggled/de-energized when the breaker trips.

Thor should have all the wiring diagrams you require.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:57 PM   #5
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Well I found the problem and in the meantime I'm a lot smarter, at least when it comes to what the problem wasn't. It turned out to be a broken 0/2 ga. wire from battery POS terminal output of the house batteries. The POS cable was manufactured too short and would flex everytime the batt drawer was moved. Over time this broke the wire in the cable. I'm making a new cable that is 5" longer for a better service loop.
Thanks for the replys.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:28 PM   #6
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Well after a detailed look at the failed cable the real cause be known. About 1/2 in back from the terminal lug a 1/2in of the cable was completely disintegrated. It seems that the battery acid or fumes wicked past the shrink fit and over time ate all but a few strands away. All that was left was a pile of copper sulfate. There was no indication of this from the outside other than a very thing ring of corrosion. If it happen to me, it can happen to someone else.
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Old 02-26-2014, 08:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by dcloukota View Post
Well after a detailed look at the failed cable the real cause be known. About 1/2 in back from the terminal lug a 1/2in of the cable was completely disintegrated. It seems that the battery acid or fumes wicked past the shrink fit and over time ate all but a few strands away. All that was left was a pile of copper sulfate. There was no indication of this from the outside other than a very thing ring of corrosion. If it happen to me, it can happen to someone else.
wholly crap, i know right where you are talking about,
now i need to go look at my cables real close, I am having some 12 v issues like a ground is loose, been driving me nuts trying to find it
my Genny will cause the lights to flicker once she fires off, then all goes normal
I have found for COLD starts to hold the start button for 20 sec let off for 3or 4 then hold again for 20 or so and repeat this about three time sometimes four and she will start
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:55 PM   #8
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The give away was that it looked like a snake that swallowed a BIG rat. Other than that it looked fine. Best of luck.
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:46 PM   #9
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By the way, if you change to AGM batteries, you will eliminate the
corrosion issues being caused by hydrogen sulfide gas coming
off the flooded wet cell batteries in a fairly closed compartment.
Plus you will have zero maintenance.
I don't know if the 12.4v was under load, but if not, your batteries
are weak. 12.4v indicates a battery that is 25% discharged.
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:59 AM   #10
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Yea, I've already deduced the batteries are weak. They're two years old but I suspect they sat discharged in the dealers yard for some time. The dealer (McMahons RV) was paid to checlk all fliuds before delivery. At home I found the house battries half filled. Gave up on them.
AGMs are on the next need list.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:15 AM   #11
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Yea, I've already deduced the batteries are weak. They're two years old but I suspect they sat discharged in the dealers yard for some time. The dealer (McMahons RV) was paid to checlk all fliuds before delivery. At home I found the house battries half filled. Gave up on them.
AGMs are on the next need list.

Curious, but how long have you had this unit? If 30 days or less and you "paid" McMahons RV to check all fluids, I would be paying them a visit and requesting that they explain why this apparently wasn't done to some degree. If they get snippy then I would give them the appropriate review at the website in the following link. RV Service Reviews This kind of unacceptable behavior from certain dealers will continue unless customers start holding them responsible for their actions or lack of. Don't know if you've checked the pricing yet on AGM's, but they won't be cheap. The battery problem would most likely have been caught if checked "properly" the first time so I would put the ball in their court and se what they say.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:53 PM   #12
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Your batteries are probably weak because they haven't been receiving current thru that bad cable give them a chance to recharge and check them again before you replace them, they may not be bad or go to your nearest auto parts store and have them tested.
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