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Old 06-02-2010, 03:45 PM   #1
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Tuscany 4076 Chassis HVAC Design Criteria

Following is a copy of the e-mail sent to Tony at Thor this morning. If any of you have additional input would be appreciated as I am really not happy with my chassis HVAC system and think it should operate better.


Tony:

My thanks to you in advance. Our entire IRV2 owners forum looks to you as the “service guru” for our Damon coaches. Accordingly, I am contacting you for some assistance.

In my estimation, and experience, the cooling and heating operation of the chassis HVAC in our coach is unsatisfactory and I would like to get the issue resolved before my one year warranty anniversary passes in late September. In our owners forum at IRV2, other owners lead me to believe that the passenger cabin can be expected to be either too hot or too cold depending on the season as the crew cabin HVAC design parameters are limited or deficient.

It would be helpful to solve this issue if you or your staff could provide me with the design parameters so that I can see weather my system is operating properly or not? I am sure your engineering staff has some design criteria/standards that could be reviewed to determine if the system is operating properly or not.

Experienced conditions that prompt my question are.

· Last fall (October/November) while traveling with outside ambient temperatures around freezing we were barely able to defrost the windshield and actually had to stop a couple of times and use the coach propane heating system and supplementary electric heaters to defrost the windshield to a safe visibility condition. Obviously, we were extremely uncomfortable as well.

· This past week while traveling in the southwest with outside ambient temperature of 86 to 96 degrees F, we were unable to get the passenger cabin temperature below 83 - 88 degrees F. The measured outlet temperature at the AC vent on the passenger panel was 78-80 degrees, while the system was operating at MAX cool, but the measured crew cabin temperature 3-4 ft from the dash ranged from 88 to 93 degrees.

Any assistance with design criteria you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Then I would know what HVAC performance should be expected.

Thanking you in advance.

V/r
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:02 PM   #2
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oohh oooh pick me
i pull 47f from the center vents
you may remember we had the condenser, supply line, evap and orifice replaced because we lost all cooling.
the supply line at the pump/compressor was pulled tight and was leaking around the sealed area.

I have found that the LARGE air space behind you sucks up a/c like a congressman spends your money

as for heat......... i haven't had an issue yet
you may have your techs hook it up to the gauges and ensure its within parameters

this summer we are going to hang a sheet form the front two slides corners to help trap the cool up front with us, for short runs
but anything over an hr i am going to run the roof a/c , there is just to much air in the coach to cool
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:57 AM   #3
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The dash air and heat were never designed to heat and cool the whole 40 ft coach. They are only supplemental for the driver/passenger areas to aid comfort. In below freezing weather, your coach furnace should have been set to maintain temp in the coach. Use the dash heat and defrost to keep the windshield clear and provide heat to overcome drafts/cold glass etc.

That said, your dash AC vent outlet temps should be roughly 30 deg below room temp when on recirc mode (max ac) or 30 deg below outside temp when in normal ac mode. This varies a bit depending on humidity but your 78deg discharge temp show the ac is not working. It still will not cool the whole coach, just no where near big enough capacity. On those 90 deg plus days, you need to use the roof ACs.

Use the coach HVAC systems to maintian the coach temps. Use the dash HVAC to adjust for driver comfort.
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
The dash air and heat were never designed to heat and cool the whole 40 ft coach. They are only supplemental for the driver/passenger areas to aid comfort. In below freezing weather, your coach furnace should have been set to maintain temp in the coach. Use the dash heat and defrost to keep the windshield clear and provide heat to overcome drafts/cold glass etc.

That said, your dash AC vent outlet temps should be roughly 30 deg below room temp when on recirc mode (max ac) or 30 deg below outside temp when in normal ac mode. This varies a bit depending on humidity but your 78deg discharge temp show the ac is not working. It still will not cool the whole coach, just no where near big enough capacity. On those 90 deg plus days, you need to use the roof ACs.

Use the coach HVAC systems to maintian the coach temps. Use the dash HVAC to adjust for driver comfort.
Understand and we are not trying to cool or heat entire coach but cabin cooling and heating should be more effective than they are. Have in shop today for a check.
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:01 PM   #5
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"I have found that the LARGE air space behind you sucks up a/c like a congressman spends your money "

I have nothing to add to the A/C - heat solution, but that is so funny I will steal it when discussing congressional spending again.
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:49 PM   #6
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let me add
our floorplan has two glass wood doors to separate the living area from the kitchen area
i have never driven with them slid to the together mode, i may try it when i run up to fuel up ol girl for her next trip


gauges are key, if your tool savy you can pick up a set and see just what your unit is doing.
they really help in the diagnostics,
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerboatr View Post
let me add
our floorplan has two glass wood doors to separate the living area from the kitchen area
i have never driven with them slid to the together mode, i may try it when i run up to fuel up ol girl for her next trip


gauges are key, if your tool savy you can pick up a set and see just what your unit is doing.
they really help in the diagnostics,
Would really like to have the doors you are meationing. I have thought about installing someting similar but being a OEM purist I am always leary of trying an unproven modification. The slide locations really restrict an
estetically acceptable retrofit. After your post I am giving it some more thought as that seems to be the optimum solution.
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:32 AM   #8
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If its hot outside and you are using the coach, why would you not simply use the AC? Much cheaper and more comfortable than installing partitions in a motorhome that just get in the way and leave much of the coach uncomfortably warm.
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:37 PM   #9
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If its hot outside and you are using the coach, why would you not simply use the AC? Much cheaper and more comfortable than installing partitions in a motorhome that just get in the way and leave much of the coach uncomfortably warm.
You are so correct but we just hate running the generator all those hours.
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:37 AM   #10
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Why? the most common failure of Onan gen sets is LACK of use. You will NEVER wear it out. and as for the 0.5gal / hr you use in diesel, it comes out to about 0.5 mpg difference while driving. Sure seems worth $1.50 an hour to be comfortable. Why else did you buy such a fine coach to travel in?

Our last coach was 20 yrs old when we finally parted with it. We live in the south (Houston) so its hot much of the year. Always ran the gen set and AC when it was hot, many times the dash air too to help with the greenhouse effect. When we sold the coach, the genset had right at 3000 hours on it. We had purchased it used at 6yrs old with 300hrs. Took me 2 years to get that gen set running right due to LACK of use. Once I did, ran the 2500 hrs after that with very little trouble. Many trips, it ran 24/7 for WEEKS only shutting down for a few minutes early each moning for oil check and fire right back up.

Running the genset will HELP with its long term relaibility as well.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Why? the most common failure of Onan gen sets is LACK of use. You will NEVER wear it out. and as for the 0.5gal / hr you use in diesel, it comes out to about 0.5 mpg difference while driving. Sure seems worth $1.50 an hour to be comfortable. Why else did you buy such a fine coach to travel in?

Our last coach was 20 yrs old when we finally parted with it. We live in the south (Houston) so its hot much of the year. Always ran the gen set and AC when it was hot, many times the dash air too to help with the greenhouse effect. When we sold the coach, the genset had right at 3000 hours on it. We had purchased it used at 6yrs old with 300hrs. Took me 2 years to get that gen set running right due to LACK of use. Once I did, ran the 2500 hrs after that with very little trouble. Many trips, it ran 24/7 for WEEKS only shutting down for a few minutes early each moning for oil check and fire right back up.

Running the genset will HELP with its long term relaibility as well.
Thats great information for us, as this last trip we dry camped a bunch and concerned about all the hours we were piling on the generator. Based on your input will not be concerned about running the AC's with Onan power either. Thanks for taking the time for your detailed input.
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Old 06-14-2010, 08:58 PM   #12
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we ran with the doors closed for about ten miles
then i stopped and locked them open
the rattling drove me simply out of my mind
we did have a freeze up with the dash a/c, lots of rain and i guess we made an ice block, when we arrived at the park the dash a/c drained i would say close to two gallons of water for what seemed like forever after shut down

the return tonight it was cool but not cold, so tomorrow i will gauge it and see whats going on, before a trip to ol dealer



on a side note we ran the genny all the way home.....kept getting a weird smell in the cabin......got home and we had a small fuel leak at the genny fuel line elbow hose clamp
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Old 06-22-2010, 12:13 AM   #13
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Encountered the same problem with keeping the cabin cool. So we installed a rod and hung sheer curtins just behind the seats. This isolated the cabin area from that big void behind you. We keep them pulled aside and tied back when not needed. We also found that when parked and using the roof air, we can close them to isolate some of the heat coming in through all that front glass. As for traveling in cold weather, I try to avoid that. I follow the birds south in early fall.
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:20 AM   #14
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Pepawntx: I had done this on my C, now I need to do it for my Challenger. On the way from NOLA to Houston last weekend, my front unit kicked a breaker and my chasis AC stopped blowing cold. It was a long hot 6 hour drive with the sun coming through the window and no cool air. I had my turbo fans on me but that was more like a blowdryer.

I will be doing the curtain rod/curtains this weekend before my next trip in August. Also off to the local garage to run a leak check on the chasis AC.

Also want to see about adding more insulation under the floorboard to keep more heat. My wife refuses to go anywhere in the warm months.
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