Venetian: 2017 Venetian Experience

[paddler1954]

Mr. T. The information you provided is very detailed and I'm sure in your coach exactly how everything works. But as Al pointed out, the Venetian and the new Fleetwoods use the Firefly system to control the inverter. So many of the features you can access in your inverter are not available to us. It looks to me that yes, if you had a bunch of stuff running at one time, and the power failed, the inverter could be overloaded before the AGS kicked in to provide power.

Knowledge of this problem is enough to mitigate any issues with it for me. However, when I hit the FMA rally in January, I will be discussing the issue with Fleetwood.

[USTrekker]

Hi,
I confess to being a novice in terms of the inverter topic but have what seems like an obvious question:

If in fact a coach is wired in a way that would allow a higher demand on the 110 side (the magnum site says 17amps continuous, 50 amps peak), isn't there a breaker or fuse in that line that would cut if off before something failed or, heaven forbid, caught fire?

Phil

[paddler1954]

Phil, yes there are fuses to protect the inverter. I think the issue, at least in my mind, is that the inverter is now wired-in to almost all ACV circuits in the RVs. "Back in the day" the inverter was only wired in to specific circuits. Fridge, TV, microwave and maybe one or two outlets. So todays inverter has a much higher chance of being overloaded. Seems the only items not backed up by the inverter is the air conditioning unit(s).

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by z3406

I suspect if you contact Thor they will replace the bedroom with a Blueray. We're entitled to one according to the brochure.
My coach has a JBL sound bar. No 3D home theater system that I am aware of.

Not necessarily, the brochure probably has a disclaimer about changes being made during the model year run and may not necessarily be correct.

[MisterT]

Originally Posted by paddler1954

...many of the features you can access in your inverter are not available to us. It looks to me that yes, if you had a bunch of stuff running at one time, and the power failed, the inverter could be overloaded before the AGS kicked in to provide power...

a 'bunch of stuff' running at one time? Not sure what you mean. Your coach is designed at the factory to run up to 100amps of needs before a breaker would necessarily trip, and the loss of Shore Power simply means that the Inverter would then take over(Magnum shows a switch over timeframe of 16miliseconds, which is quick enough not to reset any clocks, etc.), but ONLY those items that are connected THRU the Inverter, NOT Air Conditioners, electric Water Heaters, engine Block Heater, clothes Dryer, etc, they would simply turn off and be unpowered... so, NO... the Inverter will not 'overload' simply by this process. This process is actually WHAT the Inverter is for. It does not care whether you have a single 120v item in usage, or everything possible onboard being used.

If you are concerned that a breaker may trip, then yes, breakers are designed to trip because of HEAT, which is typically too many amps being drawn thru the wire and creating a temperature that the breaker is designed to 'fault' for. But, breakers tripping is not the Inverter being 'overloaded' - that is certainly a different subject, though both the Inverter AND the coach's electrical breaker box has dedicated breakers just for this reason. Rest assured, the Inverter is designed to allow you to make use of ALL of the benefits of the electrical items in the coach. You should never have to 'cut off' certain items in your coach 'just because' you are no longer on Shore Power or on the Generator.

I'm sure that the Firefly electrical system is way more advanced than my simple Magnum ME-RC Inverter controller panel, but I'm sure that you have access thru your electrical system to all of the same, and maybe many more, settings and options as I do. You just may have to access them in a different way. I've delivered these new units to dealers from the factory, a Venetian A40 to Raleigh's Camping World, for example, and have made use of the Inverter while both underway, and at overnight stops.

[revflyer]

Just wanted to add, that the problem I had was they had to many things ran thru the inverter. The inverter has a built in 30 amp breaker, very small white button on the side of the inverter. Any time that I pulled more then 30 amps with the things that where on the inverter it would trip. I turned the shore power off and tried to start every system and outlets. The only thing that would not start was the A/C's with heat pumps. So I basically had a 30 amp coach. After they took the Water heater, fireplace and washer off the inverter have not had a issue for 10 months. There is also 2 power modules that will limit what you can run. If the water heater calls for power, the fireplace turns off and if you are using the washer/dryer the vacuum will not have power.

[MisterT]

Originally Posted by revflyer

... There is also 2 power modules that will limit what you can run. If the water heater calls for power, the fireplace turns off and if you are using the washer/dryer the vacuum will not have power.

you are referring to the 'EMS' electrical management system, not the Inverter. The EMS will 'shed' certain loads, such as the fireplace, when another high amp draw on the same leg(L1 or L2) requires power. This is simply to keep YOU from having to turn the fireplace off to keep the breaker from tripping on this line with two high amp devices causing an overload. It is not about the Inverter since the inverter does not run water heaters and fireplaces, those have to be run on Shore Power or Generator.

[z3406]

Mr T
Rev and I keep trying to tell you that our coaches have the washer, dryer, fireplace,etc connected to run thru the inverter. When the inverter is in passthru mode no problem. When the external power quits the inverter tries to pick up the load and that is part of the problem. On my coach since it's purchase in Sept 2017 I've had a burnt wire smell when the generator started and before it picked up the load from the external power and a 100% ac failure when the 300 amp main fuse blew and I have no idea what blew it as the coach was plugged into 30 amp external power at the time.
The purpose of this thread is to pass along what is happening to us as we gain experience with our Venetian T42. Hopefully by now you get the message that the electrical system on my T42 is not set up the same way as your Palazzo and we need to deal with those issues differently.
I suspect the Firefly system is capable of a lot more than the way ours is programmed. I've spoken with the Firefly people and they are very helpful when contacted. Thy also told me that Thor tells them what to program into the system. Since this coach is a very early implementation of the Firefly it seem to me that the programming of it is not all it could be. I'm hoping someone at Thor reads this and can come up with some solutions for what are less than optimal implementation at the moment. This coach has an appointment at the Factory Service Center in 2018 and they are going to have a lot of things to address.

[z3406]

Stay tuned folks
We're leaving tomorrow on our annual 4 month trek to warmer weather. We'll be a far south as Florida and as far west as Texas before we return. Since I have zero faith in the wet bay heating I'll wait until I get as far south as GA before I dewinterize.

[MrMudstud]

Originally Posted by z3406

A call to Thor customer service this morning tells me that their heating solution for the wet bays is only good until about 25 degrees.

We just been through 3 days of below freezing weather with our coach. To have heat in our compartments, I hooked up a 100 w light bulb each in 2 of my water compartments. One in my water pump and dump valve compartment and the other in my 100 gal fresh water bay. I checked them each morning around 8:30 with my IR temperature gun and each compartment was around 42 to 45 degrees. I did not run my furnace which does heat my compartments, but use a small electrical heater inside the coach that kept the temperature 48 to 50 degrees. My coach was parked in our shed.

[MisterT]

Originally Posted by z3406

Mr T
...our coaches have the washer, dryer, fireplace,etc connected to run thru the inverter. ...

I would hope that Thor did not actually wire these as you suggest, but that's just my hope... if they did, someone will have a 'talking to' back at the factory.

I have a sneaking feeling that it's something else...

[z3406]

Update
Friday the 5th nite we had the coach prepped for the trip sitting in driveway, pointed in the right direction, fully loaded and it was COLD. Temp went down to -1 just after sunrise. About 11:30 PM we shut the generator down on what should have been a fully charged set of house batteries. I had everything in the coach turned off except the two DC furnaces and the residential refrigerator. The inside draw on the DC panel said -2 amps.I had a remote temp sensor installed in the coach so I could monitor the inside temp from the house. Between 3:30 and 6:30 AM the coach lost heat, going inside the DC voltage was 9 volts coach batteries on the DC control panel. Everything on the DC side had shut down due to low voltage. There is no way the 4 six volt golf cart batteries in the coach should have gone dead with that minimal load and only 4 to 6 hours of running time. I suspect my house batteries are defective, this coach sat on the dealers lot for over a year before we took delivery and I think the batteries were run down during that period. That shouldn't surprise me except for the fact that a told the dealer to check the batteries before we took delivery of the coach and then again last week when the coach was at the dealer for the AC power loss problem. I think the dealers idea of checking the batteries is looking at the water in the cells as opposed to performing a load check on the batteries to see if they are taking a full charge. The condition of the batteries is something I notified Thor about on the phone yesterday and is something else added to the list for the factory trip in May.
Even with the coach batteries that flat the chassis batteries were strong enough to start the engine, after a bit of time the engine alternator gave me enough power to get the generator running. With the generator running I shut the engine down and turned the block heater on as the temperature was rapidly approaching Zero. Only thing I could have done differently was turn on the auto gen start feature but as I live in a residential community I didn't want to disturb my neighbors with the gen noise.
One other useful piece of information I learned was that going down the road in single digit weather the basement did not drop below freezing with the front furnace running. I had some water bottles in the basement I used as a test to see if would freeze and they didn't. The Thor techs told me that the front furnace has a duct connected to the wet bay, as I have already found one duct from the rear furnace dangling on the floor I suspect that the front furnace may have a similar issues. The rear furnace blows a lot more hotter air out of the ducts you can physically touch that the front furnace does.
As I type this I'm testing to see if the electric hot water heater will shut down the fireplace if they both come on at the same time. I'm hopeful they won't as the fireplace seems to be on line 2 and the hot water heater is on line 1 per the firefly display.

[Mnoel]

I've been following this thread with interest since your first post. Our Aria is somewhere in between your Venetian and the Palazzo in most areas. First thought on the batteries is that Thor, and most manufacturers use cheap batteries to begin with. Second, from experience, is that furnace fans use a lot of juice. As cold as it was, I would imagine that your furnace(s) was running almost constantly. Every time we camp in cold weather, the furnace drops the battery levels surprisingly quickly. I know our coach wasn't on the lot for 2 weeks before we bought it, but the batteries deplete way faster than I think they should. When I get tired of them, I will upgrade to 16L batteries. They have the same foot print but are taller and have about double capacity of the regular GC batteries. Of course they are much heavier and much more expensive, but I think the extra capacity will be worth it when dry camping.
Mike

[revflyer]

Replaced my house batteries after only 6 months, they would draw down way to fast like yours. I know that my coach sat for 7 months in Yuma az over a summer.
Let me know what you found on the fireplace and hot water heater. I tried to get the Thor tech to wire direct from the breaker to the heater when he was re-doing my wiring. Thor would not give him the ok. Originally the fireplace was plugged into the same receptacle as the TV. That's how it was tripping the inverter when we had to many other things on. There is now a power module behind the main breaker panel that the wiring for the Fireplace and hot water heater is ran thru. Thanks