Community Forums

sizzler · 02-03-2014, 09:04 PM

That is strange. I would check the obvious first. Check to ensure propane is on or not empty, check the 12volt panel for any blow fuses and try the AC setting to see if that blows air through the heat vents. I am not familiar with the older Outlaws, but there is a pretty good mix of people on here and with the info of which Outlaw you have, may help you get a better answer. Sorry I was not of more help,

Take Care,
Jay

Scarab0088 · 02-03-2014, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azreel

The problems with my Outlaw never seem to end...

We've been on shore power lately and using space heaters at night. Last night the temps were going to get too cold for the space heaters to keep up, so we tried to turn on the furnace... only it's not doing anything.

When we turn on the furnace, the AC kicks on and blows air through the roof. Nothing comes out of the floor vents.

We've tried both the front and rear thermostats, and the doesn't do anything on Furnace mode, while the front activates the roof unit in Furnace mode but the air it blows isn't warm at all.

Am I missing something? Is there some third thermostat somewhere that controls the furnace?

Aircon with wireless remote?
First the basics....for the wireless control...
The rear aircon is the one that controls the furnace (Edit, it's the front on GEN II Outlaws):
Power on, select heat, and set tempurature.
The furnace is under the kitchen cabinets and blows out the floor vents.

My aircon has an Eheat and Ecool button on the ceiling unit frame. Press the Eheat will start the furnace (Emergency heat). If you have that, it's a place to start, but you need the remote to set the temp.

If that doesn't work, then you will have to troubleshoot...like:
Check that the Propane on and line is full of propane (run the stove to prime the gas line).
Check the fuses for 12VDC to the furnace ignition and furnace fan.
Check the burner for insect bodies or nests.

If that is all good, then there is something wrong that would require a bit more than I could describe here like igniter issues, thermal coupler problem and such.

Best luck

Mike Bachman · 02-03-2014, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azreel

The problems with my Outlaw never seem to end...

We've been on shore power lately and using space heaters at night. Last night the temps were going to get too cold for the space heaters to keep up, so we tried to turn on the furnace... only it's not doing anything.

When we turn on the furnace, the AC kicks on and blows air through the roof. Nothing comes out of the floor vents.

We've tried both the front and rear thermostats, and the doesn't do anything on Furnace mode, while the front activates the roof unit in Furnace mode but the air it blows isn't warm at all.

Am I missing something? Is there some third thermostat somewhere that controls the furnace?

I had the same problem. I found that when the air conditioning started, I had to lower the temperature until it shut off. I would then turn the unit off, adjust the hand control to heat and turn the unit back on. Do this all with the rear, as in towards the garage, unit like Steve said.

Mike

focker · 02-03-2014, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azreel

The problems with my Outlaw never seem to end...

We've been on shore power lately and using space heaters at night. Last night the temps were going to get too cold for the space heaters to keep up, so we tried to turn on the furnace... only it's not doing anything.

When we turn on the furnace, the AC kicks on and blows air through the roof. Nothing comes out of the floor vents.

We've tried both the front and rear thermostats, and the doesn't do anything on Furnace mode, while the front activates the roof unit in Furnace mode but the air it blows isn't warm at all.

Am I missing something? Is there some third thermostat somewhere that controls the furnace?

I am 99% sure that all of the Outlaws only use the rear unit for heat. I didn't realize it until Steve posted but it would sound from his description like some Outlaws came with a combination of heat pump and propane heat. If there is Eheat that is heat strips to help heat when using electricity only and the outside temperature is lower then what a normal heat pump system can handle (usually about 38 degrees or less).
I have Carrier units and mine is propane only. Regardless of what you have, only turn on the rear unit. The front unit will only cool or blow air. I don't know if you have ever cleaned your furnace where the air intake for the burner assembly is but it is essential to make sure the propane ignitor is not blocked by rust or debris. It takes about 30 seconds to do from start to finish.
Check this video at the 1:57 mark, just use some needle-nose or something similar if there is debris to pull out and then blow it out with air. Also VERY important to do this to your refrigerator too.

Video on Furnace: RV Furnace Maintenance - Do It Yourself - YouTube

And Fridge: RV Refrigerator Repair Maintenance - YouTube

When you set the rear system on heat let us know if there is fire from propane visible in the outside unit. That will let us know it is firing properly.

PS - What year is your Outlaw?

Mike Bachman · 02-03-2014, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by focker

I am 99% sure that all of the Outlaws only use the rear unit for heat. I didn't realize it until Steve posted but it would sound from his description like some Outlaws came with a combination of heat pump and propane heat. If there is Eheat that is heat strips to help heat when using electricity only and the outside temperature is lower then what a normal heat pump system can handle (usually about 38 degrees or less).

Scott,

I only use the rear air con unit and mine controls both heating and air conditioning. It also has the emergency buttons, but they do the same thing as using the hand controller, but then I have a weird Outlaw. LOL!!

Mike

azreel · 02-04-2014, 07:04 AM

Mine is a 2012 Outlaw without the handheld wireless remote. Both thermostats are the black boxes solidly mounted to the wall.

I tried the rear... nothing happened. I'm going to try what Mike Bachman suggested, but even if that works I suspect a repair is in order. That's an awfully convoluted way to get the heat on!

Bobcat12 · 02-04-2014, 08:13 AM

We had the same problem first time using the heat. our wall mount thermostat on the hall controls the heat. with the unit off (no lights), press the - button three times so the green light is on heat, then set the thermostat and heat should come on. Our first cold trip we had a hard time getting it on too!

sizzler · 02-04-2014, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azreel

Mine is a 2012 Outlaw without the handheld wireless remote. Both thermostats are the black boxes solidly mounted to the wall.

I tried the rear... nothing happened. I'm going to try what Mike Bachman suggested, but even if that works I suspect a repair is in order. That's an awfully convoluted way to get the heat on!

Hello Azreel,

You must have the Dometic Furnace as I have in my 2013. With my Outlaw I did not have the opportunity to have someone go through the workings of the unit and had to figure it all out myself with the help of the good people of this forum. Luckily the RV companies only have so many choices when it comes to the systems. I don't know about you, but I feel like this furnace is a little under powered as it takes a lot of time to get the coach up to temperature.

Anyway, on my unit the controls are mid ship and are mounted side by side. The rear most controller is the one that controls the furnace, rear AC and rear Fan. The front most controller controls the front AC and front Fan. It has a heat option but does not do anything. To use heat you leave the front off. Not even on fan as I found out.

If my gas is off or empty, the furnace fan will still come on and blow air through the heater vents (lower vents). If this does not happen for you, you must have a fuse issue or wiring issue. I found on the Outlaws, it is hard to hear the gas ignite, but if you go out side you can hear it quite well. I would go out side and see if you can hear it attempting to ignite or better yet ignite.

If you don't hear the igniter which sounds like a ticking noise, you have found your problem. I had this happen once on one of my rigs in the past. The wire was pulled out some how. Strange one, but obviously strange things seems to happen with RVs. You can clean the igniter with emery cloth. The igniter looks and acts kind of like a spark plug. Clean both ends with the cloth or sand paper if that is all you have. Be careful not to pull the wire out.

At this point if you have check all the obvious, propane, 12volt fuse panel, and fan turning on, you will want to open the exterior panel of the furnace. I have heard of all kinds of things creating debris in the exhaust and intake, from wasps and ants building nets, to leaves getting in there. The air to gas mixture is quite sensitive and must be just right to maintain continued combustion on it's own. Check for any debris with the furnace off of course. Once you are happy that it is clean, leave the cover off and turn the heat on again. Visually check for a spark from the igniter, see if you can actually see the gas ignite. Does it stay ignited or just go out right away. If you see the spark from the igniter but not combustion at all, gas may not be flowing, or the mixture is way off. This will require service.

In my experience, furnaces need very little maintenance other than keeping the intake clean. I also found that it is good to exercise your appliances rather than let them site unused for great lengths of time. I run all my gear once a month to blow the cobwebs out so to speak.

I hope this was of help.
Good Luck,
Jay

sizzler · 02-04-2014, 08:29 AM

My wife made an obvious but not always thought of point to ensure your temp setting is higher than the current inside temperature. Since you are using electric heaters, maybe it is warmer than the setting? Just a thought, we all do it. Once my geni was not creating power and I checked everything. Crapy weekend. Finally took it in for repair and it turns out I forgot my older unit at the time did not have an auto switch and required direct pluggin with the shore power cable. What a waste of money and a little bit of my manhood. I can tell you, I did not tell my wife the truth on that one. lol

azreel · 02-05-2014, 01:10 PM

I'm still struggling with this furnace...

I've set the rear thermostat (this is a Dometic set up by the way) to 90F (the space heater is indicating it's 60F inside) and made sure that no fuses are tripped and the propane is on.

I'm not hearing the ignitor at all, and there's no air (hot or cold) blowing from the floor vents.

Any other ideas?

Scarab0088 · 02-05-2014, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azreel

I'm still struggling with this furnace...

I've set the rear thermostat (this is a Dometic set up by the way) to 90F (the space heater is indicating it's 60F inside) and made sure that no fuses are tripped and the propane is on.

I'm not hearing the ignitor at all, and there's no air (hot or cold) blowing from the floor vents.

Any other ideas?

Sorry, we have different furnace systems...but just some ideas:

The term "no fuses are tripped" gives me pause. The furnace is a 12VDC appliance, so you need to check the automotive style fuse panel. These fuses burn-out and give no obvious indication they are out, unless your panel is the type with red LED's to show individual circuit condition.

Since the thermostat is controlling the aircon then the issue is probably in the furnace itself or the thermostat connection to the furnace. There are troubleshooting tips in the original manual or on-line like the videos here:
RV Video Gallery - Dometic

Best luck

azreel · 02-05-2014, 04:05 PM

ah HA!

Found the culprit.

Your comment about it being 12V got me to dig a bit deeper... I'd already checked the 12V fuses (mine have the nifty LEDs that light up when they're blown) but wondered if there isn't another fuse somewhere...

Sure enough, there's a circuit breaker inside the furnace access panel on top of the blower itself. I'd already looked in there to see if the propane was lighting, and somehow missed it.

So - now the furnace works. Adding to the confusion however, is that it is apparently controlled by the FRONT thermostat, AND the roof fan comes on when the furnace is working (hot air comes out of the floor vents) I suppose to further circulate the air.

Scarab0088 · 02-05-2014, 04:48 PM

CONGRATS!...I think.

Coleman HVAC was always controlled the furnace with rear aircon control...I guess Dometic just HAD to be different.

As long as the fan noise in the AirCon is not overbearing - then I guess it is a good thing to circulate the air especially for the occupants of the loft - because hot air rises and the loft gets to be the warmest spot in an Outlaw.

Does the roof fan cycle on and off with the furnace fan?
What happens if you kill the 120VAC to the aircon?

I have to believe that the roof fan does not need to run for the furnace to operate(?).

Safe travels

sizzler · 02-05-2014, 09:05 PM

Good to know about the fuse on top of the blower, I will have to check mine to see if there is one too. Regarding the thermostat, RVs are put together so quickly that you may have had a new guy on the job whom wired for the front thermostat. To me it makes sense that it is the front thermostat as that is were the furnace is located. Perhaps I should switch mine around.

Regard Steves question, the Dometic units we have, have three settings besides off. Acon, Fan and Heat. You can only run one setting at a time on each thermostat, so I guess for that reason, the rear thermostat controlling the heat makes sense so you can turn the fan on to move the heated air from the front more to the back. If you set the front one in my case, to heat and are on 12volt only, nothing will happen. If you are shore or Geni power the fan in the rear roof unit will come on. Fan and ACON require shore or geni power as well. In the 37MD the loft does not get very much heat, but I never thought about using the fan to push the air around more, but then again I am dry camping most of the time.