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Old 04-15-2013, 01:44 PM   #1
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Palazzo 33.2 Parked Regen

I thought some you may find this useful.

Attached are images of where you can find the "Shorting Plug" for doing a parked regen. It is the white plug with the red tab. (page 4.2 of the Freightliner manual)

After picking up my coach from the dealer, I found that the DEF lamp was on. I should of got a clue when I saw that they had used 1/4 of my diesel fuel! (They told me that they had to charge up the batteries)

I had no plans on driving at highway speeds anytime soon, so I check the manual for doing a regen. I guess our coaches don't have the switch for a parked regen, so I found the shorting plug and did it that way...
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbc5 View Post
I thought some you may find this useful.

Attached are images of where you can find the "Shorting Plug" for doing a parked regen. It is the white plug with the red tab. (page 4.2 of the Freightliner manual)

After picking up my coach from the dealer, I found that the DEF lamp was on. I should of got a clue when I saw that they had used 1/4 of my diesel fuel! (They told me that they had to charge up the batteries)

I had no plans on driving at highway speeds anytime soon, so I check the manual for doing a regen. I guess our coaches don't have the switch for a parked regen, so I found the shorting plug and did it that way...
Thanks for the info! Running the engine and burning up a quarter tank of fuel to charge the batteries...sounds like a very expensive way to charge batteries!
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:37 AM   #3
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Great info, thanks.

Considering how long it takes to drive long enough to burn that much diesel hard to imagine how long it takes at idle. Certainly far more than Cummins recommends. If it were me I would call Cummins concerning potential long term issues and if there is anything that can be done now to mitigate them.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:44 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by bbc5 View Post
I thought some you may find this useful.

Attached are images of where you can find the "Shorting Plug" for doing a parked regen. It is the white plug with the red tab. (page 4.2 of the Freightliner manual)

After picking up my coach from the dealer, I found that the DEF lamp was on. I should of got a clue when I saw that they had used 1/4 of my diesel fuel! (They told me that they had to charge up the batteries)

I had no plans on driving at highway speeds anytime soon, so I check the manual for doing a regen. I guess our coaches don't have the switch for a parked regen, so I found the shorting plug and did it that way...
I don't understand the connection between your DEF light being on and performing a parked REGEN? The 6.7 equipped coaches have a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) that traps the particles of soot created when burning a rich diesel fuel mixture. Before DPF's, you would see diesels putting out black smoke, typically under heavy acceleration. Thats why your DPF equipped diesels rarely emit black smoke now. The DPF traps these particles until it gets filled to a certain level. Once it reaches that level the sensor triggers a regeneration which is where the fuel injectors squirt a pulse of fuel into the exhaust to raise the temperature in the DPF high enough to burn the particles into a fine ash. Some of that ash remains and eventually the DPF has to be emptied but that usually takes well over 100K miles to get full.

If you drive your diesel at an efficient level (don't lug it at 1600 rpm, etc) it will create less soot. And normal regenerations that occur while driving down the road will be sufficient to keep the DPF cleaned out. Normally you don't need to do a parked regeneration unless something is abnormal like excessive idling, etc.

Plus, the DEF fluid is injected into the exhaust stream to reduce NOX emissions. The ammonia in the DEF has a chemical reaction to a platinum screen in the catalytic convertor that reduces NOX. If the diesel doesn't use DEF, it has to have an EGR in order to meet NOX emissions standards. The EGR's were notorious for plugging up and by injecting burnt exhaust gas into the intake air stream it had a negative impact on fuel economy. Thats why everyone has gone to DEF type systems.

So it's good to know where the shorting plug is in case you ever get a "DPF Full" message on the dash and need to do a manual regen, but that isn't a substitute for having DEF in your tank.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:30 AM   #5
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I don't understand the connection between your DEF light being on and performing a parked REGEN? The 6.7 equipped coaches have a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) that traps the particles of soot created when burning a rich diesel fuel mixture. Before DPF's, you would see diesels putting out black smoke, typically under heavy acceleration. Thats why your DPF equipped diesels rarely emit black smoke now. The DPF traps these particles until it gets filled to a certain level. Once it reaches that level the sensor triggers a regeneration which is where the fuel injectors squirt a pulse of fuel into the exhaust to raise the temperature in the DPF high enough to burn the particles into a fine ash. Some of that ash remains and eventually the DPF has to be emptied but that usually takes well over 100K miles to get full.

If you drive your diesel at an efficient level (don't lug it at 1600 rpm, etc) it will create less soot. And normal regenerations that occur while driving down the road will be sufficient to keep the DPF cleaned out. Normally you don't need to do a parked regeneration unless something is abnormal like excessive idling, etc.

Plus, the DEF fluid is injected into the exhaust stream to reduce NOX emissions. The ammonia in the DEF has a chemical reaction to a platinum screen in the catalytic convertor that reduces NOX. If the diesel doesn't use DEF, it has to have an EGR in order to meet NOX emissions standards. The EGR's were notorious for plugging up and by injecting burnt exhaust gas into the intake air stream it had a negative impact on fuel economy. Thats why everyone has gone to DEF type systems.

So it's good to know where the shorting plug is in case you ever get a "DPF Full" message on the dash and need to do a manual regen, but that isn't a substitute for having DEF in your tank.
Thanks for the info. And yes the aftertreatment needed a regen because of excessive idling at the service center. Lastly, my def tank is full...also I should of said the DPF Lamp was on.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:57 AM   #6
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Great info, thanks.

Considering how long it takes to drive long enough to burn that much diesel hard to imagine how long it takes at idle. Certainly far more than Cummins recommends. If it were me I would call Cummins concerning potential long term issues and if there is anything that can be done now to mitigate them.
I didn't think about this, thanks!

So I just called cummins and they said that they don't recommend idling for more than 20 minutes. I asked what the long term affects of idling longer than that would/could be, and after pushing a little because she was hesitant to say, she finally said some soot build up behind the piston rings. Not a big deal she said? I hope so.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:41 AM   #7
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Diesels can idle for extended periods of time without harming the internal components of the engines, especially with todays electronic injection and precise fuel control. I wouldn't worry about that aspect at all.

The issue with todays diesels idling for long periods is they do not generate enough heat at idle for the DPF to convert the soot to ash and the emissions are dirty because the DEF system has little impact at idle.

How long was your rig at the shop? I have seen cases where the shop starts a rig like they did with yours, then they forget and go home and it runs all night. That could explain why you saw the fuel usage you did. That would also explain why you got a "DPF Full" light. Now that a regen has been performed and your DPF cleaned out, you should be good to go.

One item of interest: If you ever have an issue with the emissions system on your rig under warranty, Cummins will read the ECM statistics. It is not uncommon for them to point to a statistic and say "vehcile was idled excessively" then try to deny the warranty claim. I know this because I have had 3 other vehicles with Cummins 6.7's in them. I had an 2007.5 Dodge truck that had the first 6.7's in them. There were a lot of issues with check engine lights, excessive regenerations, DPF's getting full, etc. This is where Cummins told me I idled the truck excessively and they were denying warranty coverage. Yet all I did with this truck was start it in the morning (no long warm-ups), drive to work on the highway, then return home. The only real idling it did was when sitting at a stop light and I have very little stop-go traffic where I live. So I pushed back and refused to accept Cummins position.

Long story short, it turns out that their ECM would count any minutes the engine spent at 1500 rpm or less as idle time! Even if you were driving down the road at 45 mph, if the engine was only turning 1450 rpm then all those minutes were counted as idle time. They set the ECM up this way because any time the engine was running under 1500 rpm, it wasn't generating enough heat for the DPF to work. So they had to change their position on the warranty claims. People that lived in urban areas spent most of their time below highway speeds and accelrating easy trying to conserve fuel. So Cummins had to make a lot of SW changes in the ECM until they finally got all of the bugs worked out. It was because of this scenario that you now have the high idle feature on your 6.7 so if you turn the cruise control on and set it while parked, your engine will high idle above 1500 rpm.

The old 5.9's and the new 6.7's (basically the same motor internally) are almost bullet proof especially since the new 6.7's don't have EGR's any longer. You should have no issues with the motor.

I don't remember, but if the electronic dash on the Palazzo has the option to monitor engine hours, you may want to write down the total hours on the motor before you drop it off for service next time so you can document how much they run it.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:37 PM   #8
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Great info Randy, much appreciated.

Now if only I could remember everything valuable I read on the forum!
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:49 AM   #9
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I checked the manual for the electronic dash display. There is a choice to display total engine hours and there is another one to display engine idle time.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:05 AM   #10
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I checked the manual for the electronic dash display. There is a choice to display total engine hours and there is another one to display engine idle time.
Good info, thanks!
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