Community Forums

Wanderer23 · 12-16-2017, 05:44 PM

Working on existing coach/toad wiring of previous owner today. Had engine running sometimes but mostly with key just on for periods of maybe 10 minutes max if that just to verify toad lights working properly. Went to start it up to put it away and nothing when I turned the key.....nada. Started generator and ran it for about 2 hrs Inverter/charger panel indicated going into float mode but never indicated full charge nor any fault messages. I normally run the generator once a week for about 2 hrs. Started fine earlier in the day.

Never touched any battery wiring to my knowledge. Batteries are buried and look old a filthy. I'll try to pull them out first chance I get and check voltage, etc. I have no idea if these are original or have been replaced before or if they are even the correct size.

Seeking recommendations for affordable correct size start batteries for a ISL 400. Has 2. What amp rating, etc will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for advice and support.

TipS · 12-16-2017, 07:03 PM

I took mine out after they died and found an equivalent replacement at Batteries +Bulbs in a Duracell for about $100 each (2). Plus i got 10 or 15% off with an internet coupon. That was about a year and half ago. So far so good. NAPA, everyone else was much more.

Harry B · 12-16-2017, 07:33 PM

950-1000 CCA each

JohnBoyToo · 12-17-2017, 06:37 AM

Assume you are talking about starting batteries and not coach batteries...

Did you not try the battery boost switch ? last time out we forgot to unplug a charging portable speaker for 4 days and ours wouldn't start, (don't ask

this particular usb pod is tied to starter batteries)
used the battery boost and it cranked right up.

Page 25 of my manual:

The Battery Boost switch engages a heavy-duty solenoid to electrically connect the house batteries to the engine battery in the event the engine will not crank or cranks slowly. The solenoid is designed for short-term high current intermittent use. Engaging the boost solenoid for an extended period will damage the solenoid.

Jump Starting Using the Battery Boost Switch:
With the ignition key off, press and hold the Battery Boost switch for ten seconds. After ten seconds, continue to hold the switch down and turn on the ignition. If the engine fails to crank or does not crank fast enough, discontinue the attempt. Continued attempts will only diminish any remaining surface charge in the chassis battery and end future alternative attempts.
Next, start the generator. This may require using the Battery Boost switch for the
generator to start from the engine battery.
Once the generator is operating, the electrical combination of the generator and the inverter will charge the batteries.

Allow the generator to run approximately ½ hour before attempting to start the engine. After ½ hour of generator operation, leave the generator on and hold down the Battery Boost switch for one minute. Release the switch for one minute, then press the switch again for one minute. Alternate this cycle three to five times.
Next, hold the switch down and turn the ignition on . The battery voltage gauge should indicate at least 12 Volts. If voltage is sufficient with the Boost switch held down, try to start the engine.
If the engine fails to crank or fails to crank quickly, the chassis battery may be depleted and the motorhome will require jump-starting or an external charger hooked to the chassis battery.

good luck

Wanderer23 · 12-17-2017, 02:02 PM

Unfortunately for me my coach does not have this feature. I'm now trying to find a ignition circuit wiring diagram to see what all is in the circuit from the batteries to the switch in case its not the batteries.

This is the second straight time we wanted to take the coach out and it has left us sitting in the driveway. Last time it was for a front air leak, which after being at he dealer for 2 weeks is now worse than before.

Now this. This why I want to diagnose the problem myself until I've ruled out the obvious issues.

I'll probably have to have someone to come out and change the batteries if needed, my back is too bad to lift them up that high.

The saga continues.......................

Thank you for the advice and suggestion.

dennis45 · 12-17-2017, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanderer23

Unfortunately for me my coach does not have this feature. I'm now trying to find a ignition circuit wiring diagram to see what all is in the circuit from the batteries to the switch in case its not the batteries.

This is the second straight time we wanted to take the coach out and it has left us sitting in the driveway. Last time it was for a front air leak, which after being at he dealer for 2 weeks is now worse than before.

Now this. This why I want to diagnose the problem myself until I've ruled out the obvious issues.

I'll probably have to have someone to come out and change the batteries if needed, my back is too bad to lift them up that high.

The saga continues.......................

Thank you for the advice and suggestion.

Not saying you don't need new batteries but before you go that route, do you know if the chassis batteries are being charged when on shore power?
Suggest taking your voltmeter, (you do have one right?) and check the battery voltage while plugged in. You should see 13.2 - 13.8 VDC on both the house batteries and the chassis batteries.
If you see this voltage on the house batteries only and not the chassis batteries, it's telling you your converter is not charging the chassis batteries and before you install a new set, you need to solve this problem.
Most coaches of your vintage do in fact charge both sets. However there are some that do not. I'm not familiar with your model but you need to confirm if it does or does not have this capability.
If it does not, you can install a charging device that will slip current from the house batteries to the chassis batteries based on the state of charge of the chassis batteries. Xantrex Echo Charger is one I am familiar with that is very simple to install and works very well.
If you do see a charge voltage going to the chassis batteries but they will not hold a charge, you need a new set of batteries. DP's typically use two Group 31 Commercial Maintenance Free batteries. If you need to replace them, take a few good photos before removing the old ones for reference installing the new ones.

With the engine running you should see a battery voltage of about 14.2 VDC. Running the generator, you will, or should, see the same readings as you have on shore power.

https://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-82-01...x+echo+charger

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...1p30/2100010-P

Wanderer23 · 12-18-2017, 08:44 AM

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I have a voltmeter, etc. Going out now to fight the rain and access those batteries and check them as you suggested. If needed, I'll try to obtain the coach starter circuit wiring diagram from American Coach or Spartan/Liberty if its available

I'll update my findings.

Thanks again.

dennis45 · 12-18-2017, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanderer23

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I have a voltmeter, etc. Going out now to fight the rain and access those batteries and check them as you suggested. If needed, I'll try to obtain the coach starter circuit wiring diagram from American Coach or Spartan/Liberty if its available

I'll update my findings.

Thanks again.

Have fun. In my experience with Spartan, they have been exceptional with supplying information but they will not be of much help with the charging system outside of the engine alternator. You will have to rely on the house builder for that.
Do you know if you have a BIRD system with a battery disconnect? I can provide information on that but don't want to confuse you if you have a different system.

Wanderer23 · 12-18-2017, 10:51 AM

OK here's what I found out.

Engine start batteries 12.43 volts each as they sit in the coach

House batteries (4) 12.79 volts as they sit in the coach

With generator running: Engine batteries 12.43 volts
House batteries 14.47 volts

With volt meter set from starter main large bolt with numerous large cables attached and to chassis ground. .5 volts when key is turned to start, goes to 0 when key is set back to off.
When key is turned to start clicking sound under the dash.

I did smack the starter with a rubber mallet while wife worked the ignition, still no change.

Seems there is sufficient voltage to start engine but no power to the starter, however, also appears engine start batteries not getting charged

Suggestions PLEASE...........Thanks

vito.a · 12-18-2017, 02:19 PM

You can temporarily use jumper cables from engine start to coach batteries while running the generator.
I would recommend you check voltage at your starter solenoid while a partner turns the key. If voltage is over 12, then you need to remove the starter and have it tested/rebuilt.

I change out batteries by backing the car up next to the coach battery compartment and then stand in the trunk and slide the battery from the coach to the trunk. I have the battery place unload the old battery and reload the new one. Then reverse the procedure to install the battery in the coach.

My last motor home had the orginal Cummins non-gear reduction starter. The engine batteries had to be fully charged and sometimes I still had to use the boost switch to crank it over.
On this current coach I have three 1000+ CCA Napa starting batteries and a gear reduction starter. What a difference the gear reduction starter makes! I never have to use the boost switch and the engine turns over much faster and starts easier.

Hope you get it figured out.

Mr_D · 12-18-2017, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vito.a

You can temporarily use jumper cables from engine start to coach batteries while running the generator.
I would recommend you check voltage at your starter solenoid while a partner turns the key. If voltage is over 12, then you need to remove the starter and have it tested/rebuilt.

I change out batteries by backing the car up next to the coach battery compartment and then stand in the trunk and slide the battery from the coach to the trunk. I have the battery place unload the old battery and reload the new one. Then reverse the procedure to install the battery in the coach.

My last motor home had the orginal Cummins non-gear reduction starter. The engine batteries had to be fully charged and sometimes I still had to use the boost switch to crank it over.
On this current coach I have three 1000+ CCA Napa starting batteries and a gear reduction starter. What a difference the gear reduction starter makes! I never have to use the boost switch and the engine turns over much faster and starts easier.

Hope you get it figured out.

I have four new 925 CCA starting batteries and the starter struggles with it so I have a Denso geared starter to put on when I have it in the shop next.

Tigerfan1 · 12-19-2017, 09:22 AM

I got two agm starter batteries from Auto Zone for $100 each. Been real happy with them.

Wanderer23 · 12-20-2017, 03:23 AM

I guess my next question is what brand batteries if I have to replace them? Existing pair are NAPA. I have available locally NAPA, Exide, Carquest and Continental. Deka, but they are 65 miles away and the most expensive.

Too many choices. Reviews are all over the place regarding durability and reliability, etc.

I would hate to have to replace them every year or two. Or have them go bad in the middle of nowhere and no store to get a warranty replacement.

Thoughts.............?

Thanks

Wanderer23 · 12-20-2017, 05:23 PM

Entire battery issue resolved...............

Bear with me, this takes some "splainin"

Checked every fuse and relay per wiring diagrams from Spartan and their tech support and still nothing. Since the Allison panel was dead but the dash lights were ok I feared the worst.

Called a highly rated tech to come out and check it out.......I ran out of ideas. I pulled both chassis batteries..........hmmm both dated 3/17, put them on my bench and charged them up. Only took 30 minutes or so for each to reach full charge..........sooooo, batteries are not the problem.

Tech arrived and I showed him what fuses I checked. He called ahead at told me to check a 2 amp fuse that is in the shift selector circuit going eventually to the trans control module. It checked out fine. All other fuses in the circuit were fine too. He said we need to put the batteries back in and go inside and start working our way back.

I set the batteries in the tray and he started to attach the cables when I stated that parallel connection was different then how he was doing it. Whoever put the batteries in before I took possession of the coach had the parallel cables running under the rubberized buss bars on both + and - sides. He reattached them on TOP of the rubberized buss bars. We went inside turned on the key, the Allison panel lit up and the coach fired right up. Batteries charging correctly all around. No TCM issue at all. Just someone installed cables incorrectly. He stated I was lucky it didn't lose contact at 60 mph.

We would have both missed it had I put the batteries back in before he got there like the photo I took. Just left them out to check the fuses behind the batteries. Chalk one up to my newbie ignorance and just dumb luck.

Thanks to all who provided suggestions, etc. They were GREATLY appreciated.