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Old 08-29-2015, 12:32 PM   #15
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"steined"......If you decide to do the work yourself, just turn the air down on your guns and see how they work, if you need more power, turn the air up.

I think I would keep adding the lubricant as you have been. It can't hurt and may take several days to soak in.

Only you know you're own mechanical skills. I think access to the manifold, usually from the bedroom, will be a big factor in deciding if you can do the work. I know on my ISL 400, I was a little leery of replacing the exhaust brake with the new PRXB unit, but in the end, it was a pretty easy job because of access.
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Old 08-29-2015, 12:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
"steined"......If you decide to do the work yourself, just turn the air down on your guns and see how they work, if you need more power, turn the air up.

I think I would keep adding the lubricant as you have been. It can't hurt and may take several days to soak in.

Only you know you're own mechanical skills. I think access to the manifold, usually from the bedroom, will be a big factor in deciding if you can do the work. I know on my ISL 400, I was a little leery of replacing the exhaust brake with the new PRXB unit, but in the end, it was a pretty easy job because of access.
Thanks Don.

I don't have any air tools (yet). I think the access looks pretty good with the exception of the rearmost top and bottom bolt which may be more accessible from underneath or behind the motor. The Pacbrake looks pretty easy to change out as well, I just need to figure out what configuration I'd need and what gaskets/clamps, etc I might need. I can't even get the local Cummins shop to call me back with regards to service so I may be doing it on my own anyhow.

What type of easy-out / reverse drill bits should I buy "just in case"? I hate unplanned trips to the store.
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Old 08-29-2015, 11:23 PM   #17
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I used this extractor set on my last coach, with an ISC, three times. A lot better than easy outs. I bought them from the SnapOn truck, but now NAPA sells the same one. Print the picture and take it to NAPA, or look on line.


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Old 08-30-2015, 08:25 AM   #18
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50/50 acetone and ATF for penetrating oil. None of my bolts broke.

I'm convinced warm up is where these things crack, so no E brake usage till operating temperature for me. I also use no more tan 5 lbs boost till warm.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:08 AM   #19
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I have been putting corrosion x on the bolts the last few days in the hopes of loosening them up whether I do the work or not.

Thanks for the responses so far.[/QUOTE]

Is corrosion x a penetrate Oil? I used PB blaster on both manifolds I changed. The first one I sprayed every day for several days and the bolts came right out. The second one was on the road in Canada and PB only had a few hours to work and they came out also. I did the last one with only hand tools. Both of my manifolds were not cracked, they were warped with leaking gaskets. I have spare manifold that is not cracked and has been machined flat by machine shop with gaskets that I don't need any more.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:13 AM   #20
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50/50 acetone and ATF for penetrating oil. None of my bolts broke.

I'm convinced warm up is where these things crack, so no E brake usage till operating temperature for me. I also use no more tan 5 lbs boost till warm.
I certainly agree about warm up time. I am always amazed when traveling with others how they will leave a camp ground and use full power to climb hills right out of campground. The manifolds I have changed are after someone else drove them, I have not had a problem with the new manifolds that I installed and drove.
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:27 AM   #21
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Is corrosion x a penetrate Oil?

Well it says it is, but after you asked that I did some more research and it seems it isn't the most effective penetrating oil so I'll brew up some ATF/Acetone and get to work! Thanks!
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:54 PM   #22
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Now I don't feel so bad.

In May I had something come up and punch a hole in my radiator. Had the rig towed to the Cummins shop. Luckily the radiator was covered under my insurance policy less $1K deductible. While the rig was in the shop I asked them to give the coach a good once over and if there was anything else that needed to be fixed. They said all was good.

I took the coach out for the first time this last weekend. After coming back home I want to do a good post trip inspection, in particular looking for coolant leaks etc. I removed the bedroom & closet hatches to get a good look. No leaks but I found the exhaust manifold cracked.

I started looking for parts, ended up buying from Cummins, cost was ~$600. I sprayed the bolts with PB Blaster prior to looking for parts and making phone calls. Started removing the exhaust manifold at ~2PM and had it out by 5:30PM. Not bad for a former desk jockey!

No broke bolts, all of them were tight (used a short cheater bar on all of them). There were a couple of the exhaust gaskets that were ruptured through, hope new ones will seal correctly. The 4 turbo bolts were harder to get out due to clearance and access.

I loosened all the clamps on the turbo and was able to get it to move enough to remove the manifold. I'll try and move it to the side before installing exhaust manifold.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Does anyone know the torque specs for the manifold bolts and turbo studs nuts?
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:17 PM   #23
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I know I'm going to get slammed for this but......I never shut down a diesel till I get where I'm going. I never shut down a diesel while fueling, rest area while eating, truckstop while in resturant etc. I have had five deisel pushers in the past 21 years. I have drove truck for five million miles. Not once have I had a manifold crack. This includes Cummins,Caterpillar, Detroit and Mack. Deisel 's generate a tremendous amout of heat, cast iron and steel cools at different rates and expands differently. This is where the problem begins. In winter months my engine has ran for months continually with no problems. I'm old school and just disagree with the 5 minute cool down. Just my honest opinion
Totally agree with dissimilar heating and cooling between cast and steel.
What are your thoughts about extended idling and damage to turbo seals?
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Old 09-01-2015, 12:09 PM   #24
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Now I don't feel so bad.

In May I had something come up and punch a hole in my radiator. Had the rig towed to the Cummins shop. Luckily the radiator was covered under my insurance policy less $1K deductible. While the rig was in the shop I asked them to give the coach a good once over and if there was anything else that needed to be fixed. They said all was good.

I took the coach out for the first time this last weekend. After coming back home I want to do a good post trip inspection, in particular looking for coolant leaks etc. I removed the bedroom & closet hatches to get a good look. No leaks but I found the exhaust manifold cracked.

I started looking for parts, ended up buying from Cummins, cost was ~$600. I sprayed the bolts with PB Blaster prior to looking for parts and making phone calls. Started removing the exhaust manifold at ~2PM and had it out by 5:30PM. Not bad for a former desk jockey!

No broke bolts, all of them were tight (used a short cheater bar on all of them). There were a couple of the exhaust gaskets that were ruptured through, hope new ones will seal correctly. The 4 turbo bolts were harder to get out due to clearance and access.

I loosened all the clamps on the turbo and was able to get it to move enough to remove the manifold. I'll try and move it to the side before installing exhaust manifold.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Does anyone know the torque specs for the manifold bolts and turbo studs nuts?
What did you need to order from Cummins? Do I just tell them I have an ISC from 2000 and need an exhaust manifold, manifold gaskets, turbo gasket, and bolts for both? Are you replacing the turbo oil line as well? Mine is slightly soot covered from the crack so I imagine it's been pretty hot exposed to the exhaust gasses.
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Old 09-01-2015, 01:22 PM   #25
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What did you need to order from Cummins? Do I just tell them I have an ISC from 2000 and need an exhaust manifold, manifold gaskets, turbo gasket, and bolts for both? Are you replacing the turbo oil line as well? Mine is slightly soot covered from the crack so I imagine it's been pretty hot exposed to the exhaust gasses.
When you go to Cummins, provide the Namplate Data off the engine. That is the Model and Serial Number. You will find the tag on the left side (looking at the engine from the rear of the coach) of the engine on the Timing Cover. It's a silver/black metal tag. This information is Crucial to getting the right parts.

As said in earlier post, take your Pac Brake Assembly with you to make sure you get the right clamps and gasket. (Unless you are planning to update it)
The brake valve is installed by the chassis provider so Cummins has no way of knowing which one is on your engine and there are at least three different ones.

Also, for what it's worth, I would replace the Turbo Oil Supply Line. Would not be a good scene if this hose ruptured after getting it all back together and resulting in a fire in the engine compartment. This line runs very hot and once disturbed can fail. Cheap insurance.

I would also get a new set of manifold bolts for what they are worth.
When you go to install, give the bolts a little dab of Never Sieze lube. When you torque the bolts, do them in stages from the center section outward. You want the manifold to draw down onto the gasket evenly so it does not distort. Your Cummins dealer will give you the correct torque. Take this value and divide by three to get three stages up to the final value.

After you take it for a test drive and get things up to normal operating temps, shut down, let it cool off and re torque the bolts.

Since you're not getting paid by the hour, take your time and do it right the first time.
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Old 09-01-2015, 05:59 PM   #26
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I actually joined Quickserve a Cummins site, a couple years ago. It is free

https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/index.html

Once you register you enter your engine SN. Once you do this you can look at the various areas of the engine as to parts. I had a hard time finding it in the list so I searched for exhaust manifold and it was included in the Turbo Charger group.


I was able to down load the parts schematic with part numbers.


I then searched the internet for alternate sources and made some phone calls. Turns out the local Cummins shop had about the best prices and the parts guy gave me a little discount and then I join the Cummins Power Club for ~$20 and saved 10% off my order.

If you don't know your SN there is a name tag on the passenger side up high, can hardly see it. I had the data card for my coach and I also called Monaco to confirm I had the right number.

It took me 3.5 hours to get the old exhaust manifold off and then another 3.5 hours to put everything else back together. Hardest part was getting the Turbo lined back up. I started the coach when done and checked everything and let it get to 180F. I will recheck the torque tomorrow.
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Old 09-02-2015, 02:10 AM   #27
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Well I got everything out but one bolt on the turbo. I need a non ratcheting box wrench or an offset 15mm to get that one off and didn't have it. It is the bottom bolt nearest the intake side. Took me about 3 or 4 beers, I mean hours to get everything else dismantled.

I bought a 12 inch 1 1/4" pipe to use as a small cheater and it came in handy. I ended up using the wd40 specialist penetrating spray and I must say it seems to have done its job. The corrosion x is great but likely not a great penetrating oil as it doesn't have much solvent to get rid of the grease and grime. Just holding the socket on a bolt that had been sprayed with it, the oil climbed onto the socket. Good stuff and doesn't smell like skunk piss.

I'll get my sn tomorrow and call cummins to order parts. I can read the numbers off the pac brake clamps. Still debating on replacing with the prxb. I've never gotten the existing one to work so it seems silly to even fool with the old one while I have everything apart. on the other hand it could be something simple like a frozen valve plate or stuck solenoid. I can hear SOMETHING in the drivers side armrest area clicking when I depress the footpedal.
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Old 09-02-2015, 03:07 AM   #28
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Well I got everything out but one bolt on the turbo. I need a non ratcheting box wrench or an offset 15mm to get that one off and didn't have it. It is the bottom bolt nearest the intake side. Took me about 3 or 4 beers, I mean hours to get everything else dismantled.

I bought a 12 inch 1 1/4" pipe to use as a small cheater and it came in handy. I ended up using the wd40 specialist penetrating spray and I must say it seems to have done its job. The corrosion x is great but likely not a great penetrating oil as it doesn't have much solvent to get rid of the grease and grime. Just holding the socket on a bolt that had been sprayed with it, the oil climbed onto the socket. Good stuff and doesn't smell like skunk piss.

I'll get my sn tomorrow and call cummins to order parts. I can read the numbers off the pac brake clamps. Still debating on replacing with the prxb. I've never gotten the existing one to work so it seems silly to even fool with the old one while I have everything apart. on the other hand it could be something simple like a frozen valve plate or stuck solenoid. I can hear SOMETHING in the drivers side armrest area clicking when I depress the footpedal.
Well you're half way there. I know the bolt you're talking about. It's a bitch. I suspect your Pac is seized. It is a fairly common issue if it's not used regularly. There is actually a special lube for these.
When I had mine apart I just pulled the butterfly and dismantled the assembly, cleaned everything real nice and assembled it with some Never Sieze lube.
But, I think if I were doing again, I would just replace it with the upgrade.
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