Biodiesel

[jdecastro]

I just purchased fuel at at Loves and the pump sign said 15% biodiesel. I mixed it with 70 gallons of regular fuel. I will be on the road for 10000 miles this summer and am worried that the 15% will cause problems with my 2000 Cummins 8.3 engine. Any comments please, THANKS.

[ulric]

Most vehicles after the mid 90's are OK on biodiesel. Two things can be a problem: 1. fuel filters - you may need to change your primary filter as biodiesel is started in use while it dissolves old scum; 2. watch out for colder weather, biodiesel forms wax crystals faster than other diesel fuels and can block filters with small particles of wax. That should not happen with 85/15 but you might see it in a real cold snap.

Otherwise, biodiesel is great - it has increased lubricity, cleans things, and burns well.

(the above is from experience with my 1997 ford 7.3 diesel f-250 in the days when I towed a trailer, but Cummins should be the same as far as biodiesel is concerned).

[RustyJC]

Cummins approves up to B5 on its newer diesels, so if you've added 70 gallons of straight #2 diesel to the B15, you've probably diluted it to something near that level. I'd keep an eye on the filters if you notice any performance problems, but other than that, you should be OK.

Rusty

[Ray,IN]

Nearly all diesel fuel today is B2, this is to replace lubricity lost when removing sulfur. Biodiesel is the best and cheapest replacement too. I doubt your engine will suffer any ill effects. Other than perhaps requiring new fuel filters, do to a much cleaner fuel system, you may notice a smoother running engine. Most of us oil burners carry spare fuel filters anyway, so no big deal.

[RandD]

Ulric and Rusty's point are well made.

We recently purchased an '02 DP with an ISC350. Last Christmas, I believe we ran the first B5 in the rig. The end result was 2 clogged fuel filters for the Aqua-Hot - it was really messed up and after some consultation, I checked the fuel filter. It was _full_ of crud and there appeared top be a floating layer of crud in the fuel tank. After replacing the Aqua-Hot filter 2 times, changing the primary fuel filter for the ISC (it was really yucky inside), everything is running fine. We _do_ carry 3 full sets of fuel filters just incase.

When I asked, Cummins and Inland Truck, both said that the B(anything) fuel could cause the non-LSD, and LSD crud in older rigs to dissolve causing the issue I had - it was not the first time either of them ran across this issue. A full tank drain and cleaning was recommended -not happening with a full tank of 100G of fuel - I used some fuel additives and new filters to clear up the issue. It has _not _ repeated itself so I assume it was a one tine thing.

I hope your experience with B5 or B10 is as positive as ours!

[AZgl1500]

Once the Bio fuel gets your fuel system clean, it will stay clean.
That is an added benefit of using a bio fuel mix.

You only need keep some spare filters on hand. usually the 3rd one is the last one for a long ways down the road.

[dons2346]

Sorry, I won't run any bioswale fuel in mu coach.

[BeltoneMagoo]

Two problems with the biofuel. 1) It does clean out dirty tanks and systems. I have run it 100% in my ford F250 with good results as far as that goes. Be sure to have spare filters handy! 2) You will lose 2-5% mileage if you run such a high concentration. It was very evident on fillups that the mileage was lower. The plus side of Biofuel is that it does lubricate the fuel pumps especially on the older mechanical types. This is important in that the new ULSD fuel does remove some of the lubricating properties that were in the old 500 PPM fuel. A Chevy/GM forum had a good study and article about the wear and 2% was the recommended percentage to use. Good luck.

[powerboatr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeltoneMagoo Two problems with the biofuel. 1) It does clean out dirty tanks and systems. I have run it 100% in my ford F250 with good results as far as that goes. Be sure to have spare filters handy! 2) You will lose 2-5% mileage if you run such a high concentration. It was very evident on fillups that the mileage was lower. The plus side of Biofuel is that it does lubricate the fuel pumps especially on the older mechanical types. This is important in that the new ULSD fuel does remove some of the lubricating properties that were in the old 500 PPM fuel. A Chevy/GM forum had a good study and article about the wear and 2% was the recommended percentage to use. Good luck.

i would venture to say your mileage dropped for another reason.
I ran anywhere from b80 to b20 in my 06 6.0, plus home brew from peanut oil.
mileage stayed consistent.
once your system is cleaned by the bio, then the filter issue really goes back to a normal change period.
the key is to run bio from the get go, then the tanks are clean from the start.
bio can grow microbes faster in the heat, if your fuel source is not up to the standard. cold weather is does require thinning with more #2 to mitigate the gelling or add a tank heater and not worry
however on a rv with the fuel tank a mile from the engine filters, i would not run more than b20 in freezing weather.
long SIT times are also its enemy, as is regular diesel fuel.
engine runs smother and cleaner with bio, i wish it was easier to get on the road, as bringing your own is sort of prohibitively space consuming and weight robbing

[spike45]

Biodiesel has a much higher affinity for water. Does a good job of acquiring that water from the atmosphere. The BTU content of biodiesel is less than that of straight No. 2D. If you see no difference in your fuel mileage perhaps your test methods are not as solid as they could be. Less BTU value equates to more fuel volume burned to get the same power.

[Perry White]

Is Bio Diesel cheaper? Also computer fuels the Cummins. That means less power and less mileage.

[spike45]

While the engine ECM (computer) does control fuel rate, it does so in response to your foot feed position, inputs from the MAP sensor (turbo boost pressure) and some others that I am not fully versed on. For a given foot feed position as you climb a hill, if you are not achieving the desired result, you press further on the feed plus the turbo charge air pressure response is also reporting less power indirectly as the fuel being consumed is not producing the same pressure on top of the piston (BMEP) translating into reduced torque output. ECM increases fuel delivery to do the same job but with more volume. You get the same effect if you burned furnace oil instead of diesel, less BTU content per pound of fuel. Thus the ECM has to increase delivery up to a maximum setting.

All this bio baloney and ethanol in gas is to 'reduce foreign oil dependency' at a tremendous cost to the consumer with the real result that we get less power from the volume of fuel burned thus we burn more to do what we used to do with less. Washington MORONS on both sides of Congress demonstrate yet again the mediocrity of people working on things they have no understanding of....I digress...Sorry.

[ulric]

Politics and ethanol aside, biodiesel is not such a bad fuel. Many different roads lead to the same results, and it's just one of those "roads." I used to run 99% in my Ford 7.3 liter and after 2 filter changes it loved it during warm weather! I suspect strongly that the mileage difference is inconsequential. I never noticed any. I run 5-10% in my Deutz tractor, which is a 1970's antique and is the only piece of machinery I have that would run after an EMP attack. It's also the most robust engine I have and will fire up in 10 below as fast as it will (instantly) when the OAT is 75 degrees. Admittedly that's not quite the same as our ISL 400 in the diesel pusher, but it also runs well on biodiesel.

[Cat320]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike45 All this bio baloney and ethanol in gas is to 'reduce foreign oil dependency' at a tremendous cost to the consumer with the real result that we get less power from the volume of fuel burned thus we burn more to do what we used to do with less. Washington MORONS on both sides of Congress demonstrate yet again the mediocrity of people working on things they have no understanding of....I digress...Sorry.

Yep, also called "unintended consequences."