Community Forums

Andy M · 01-10-2009, 04:52 PM

What would occure if per chance the wrong dca filter was installed on the engine? I stopped at a local Kenworth dealer and they were all out of the 2070, so I asked the same question above and they mentioned that it should be just fine. The two filters do look exactly alike. Can someone elaborate and educate me a little more on DCA and the importance. I don't think my coach has ever had a coolant fluid change or even a coolant filter change. It is a 1997 8.3 325HP cummins engine.

WF2070 Water Filter - 2 units DCA
WF2071 Water Filter - 4 units DCA

AFChap · 01-10-2009, 05:25 PM

You need to know if you have standard cooland or extended life. If your coolant has never been changed, I would want to have it changed if it were my coach.

My 2002 ISC maintance recommendations say 2 yr coolant change if using standard coolant, and up to 6 yr change if using extended life. If using extended life coolant, the coolant should be tested annually, with the result of the test indicating what filter should be used.

It sounds like they may have tested your coolant and didn't have the filter the test indicated you need, so they added the next stronger. Too low SCA is bad, but you can also have too high. But as long as the SCAs are within the recommended range, you are supposedly ok.

Norm Payne · 01-11-2009, 05:53 PM

The DCA in coolant filters is a slow release DCA. Either filter you listed will be OK - just make sure you add the correct amount of DCA from a bottle to bring it up to the correct level. Buy a small pack of DCA test strips and check the DCA level every six months and add enough to bring it up to specs if needed.

tom wilson · 01-12-2009, 01:13 PM

switch to FINALCHARGE and never use dca again.

samert111 · 01-13-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy M:
What would occure if per chance the wrong dca filter was installed on the engine? I stopped at a local Kenworth dealer and they were all out of the 2070, so I asked the same question above and they mentioned that it should be just fine. The two filters do look exactly alike. Can someone elaborate and educate me a little more on DCA and the importance. I don't think my coach has ever had a coolant fluid change or even a coolant filter change. It is a 1997 8.3 325HP cummins engine.

WF2070 Water Filter - 2 units DCA
WF2071 Water Filter - 4 units DCA

OK, first of all you have what is referred to as a “Wet Liner Engine” in which case the cylinders are actually sleeves that are pressed into the engine block through the blocks coolant passages. The OD of these sleeves are directly exposed to the engine coolant. During the engine combustion cycle there is a phenomenon referred to as cavitation. This is where small air bubbles in the coolant can attach themselves to the OD of the sleeve and when combustion occurs in the cylinder the bubble burst violently and can create pitting or erosion on the OD of the liner and eventually will erode the sleeve wall to a point that it can start to leak coolant into the cylinder if coolant maintenance is not followed.

SCA (Supplemental Coolant Additives) or DCA (Diesel Chemical Additives) basically are the same thing, are used to create a protective layer on the OD cylinder walls to neutralize the effects of cavitation.

The coolant filters for your engine have slow dissolving tablets in them to keep the SCA/DCA concentration to the proper levels since they deplete over time. However, its important to periodically test these concentration levels to keep them in check.

At normal service intervals which are typically annually you would replace the coolant filter with one containing 2 or 4 units of SCA/DCA depending on what your coolant test results indicate. You can get test strips from your Cummins dealer or change the coolant to the Fleetguard Final Charge coolant as others have mentioned and not worry about testing or adding additional SCA/DCA.

I believe the normal coolant change interval is 2 years or 25K miles which in the case of a MH is usually 2 years.

Andy M · 01-14-2009, 04:11 PM

Thanks for the info. Does anyone have an idea of how much the final charge coolant costs and how much I might need for a system that would be dry. It is a 1997 8.3 325HP engine. I think they call it a 6C 8.3L

David K · 01-15-2009, 06:09 PM

I bought my Final Charge coolant (50/50 mix) at Walmart and Pep Boys. The cost at Walmart was $9.95 a gallon as I recall and about a $1.00 more at Pep Boys.

I don't know what the capacity for your MH would be but for mine, it was right at 12 gallons. I have the 8.3L engine on a Spartan chassis with the side radiator. Remember that you also have the heater hoses that run to the front of the chassis. There are also other considerations that must be checked out with the switch out to Final Charge.

First, do you have the right coolant sensor in place. I forget if it needs to be a two or three wire sensor -- it is one or the other -- do a search and see which one you need. If you have the wrong one, your coolant sensor will not work with the Final Charge. I called Spartan with my VIN number to find out if my sensor would work. It did -- so I passed that test.

Next is the process of switching out the coolant. They recommend to drain the system, then fill with Final Charge and then run and heat up the system, run the heater up front -- you are flushing the system. I drained my system and filled with water only -- ran and then drained the water. Then I filled with Final Charge, ran for about 100 miles, brought it home and drained the system. Then I refilled the system with Final Charge again.

The other thing that you will need to do is to replace the DCA filter with a non-DCA filter -- just a plain water filter. That is easily enough to do. You do not want to introduce any DCA to the Final Charge.

While this is time consuming and will cost a little (the double buuing of the antifreeze to flush and fill), I feel that the change is worth it. You get extended mileage out of the Final Charge and do not have to worry about the DCA check. I think it is at 150k miles you add an extender to run another 150K. I don't think I will have to worry about that.

Sorry about the long post but, this is what I did to do the switch out. You can do a search on "final charge" and see a lot of the posts as to what needs to be done and the pros and cons.

Andy M · 01-16-2009, 05:27 PM

Thanks for the tip. Well the way the math works out from what you explained, it should run me about 240.00-250.00 in Final charge. I am just a little unclear of why a flush and 100mile run with water wouldn't completely flush it out, even if you had to flush with water twice prior to installing the Final charge,I would think that it would be flushed completely.

tom wilson · 01-16-2009, 05:39 PM

filling with finalcharge is not needed twice. you can flush out the dca with cascade soap and distilled water. drain and fill with distilled water again. drain the water and fill with finalcharge. have the heater reostat on full hot so the water in the heater will drain. my 1996 took 10 gallons.

Andy M · 01-16-2009, 05:56 PM

Thanks Tommy, sounds good. Soap in the system might cause lots of foam and wouldn't it be a little tough to completely flush the foam out, no?

Just went to the Final Charge site where they have a Q and A section. I also used some search engines to get a handle on the directions. I find it very odd and disapointing that thier site doesn't give some simple instructions on what to do prior to installation or "how to".

tom wilson · 01-17-2009, 11:22 AM

the cummins shop told me to use the cascade dishwasher soap dry granules. it does not foam and is easy to flush out it is what they use. call them for more details.

David K · 01-18-2009, 07:07 AM

The twice over with Final Charge is due to your not being able to fully drain the system -- no matter what you do, there will be liquid left in the system. The twice over flush with the Final Charge is to rid the engine, radiator, heater hose, engine cavities of the majority of the old fluids. Just telling you how a Cummins shop will handle the change over.

Also, make sure that you check the wiring on the low colant sensor. If that has to be replaced, then the costs go up considerably. I was lucky -- instead of the two or three wire sensors, I had a four wire sensor on my reserve tank which allows me to utilize any of the colants. As I mentioned in my first post, I called Spartan to make sure that I had the sensor that was needed. If you have the wrong sensor and you replace the colant with the Final Charge, your engine ECM will receive a signal that colant is low and the engine will shut down.

I did not mind the cost of the Final Charge to do it right --- that cost is a minor cost to not running the right colant and having to replace an engine.

The above is not meant to sound bossy -- just letting everyone know what went through my head and what I checked before I made the switch.

Andy M · 01-18-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Also, make sure that you check the wiring on the low colant sensor. If that has to be replaced, then the costs go up considerably. I was lucky -- instead of the two or three wire sensors, I had a four wire sensor on my reserve tank which allows me to utilize any of the colants. As I mentioned in my first post, I called Spartan to make sure that I had the sensor that was needed. If you have the wrong sensor and you replace the colant with the Final Charge, your engine ECM will receive a signal that colant is low and the engine will shut down.

Do you think this coolant sensor applys to my 1997 cummins engine? I do not believe this is a computerized engine. It is a 6c 8.3 engine.

GaryKD · 01-19-2009, 01:55 PM

Hi Andy M,
The coolant sensor is located near the bottom of the overflow tank. I changed to Final Charge about a year ago. It took me quite a few drain and refills to get all the green stuff out. I think I had about 60 gallons of contaminated water to take to the recycle center.

I notice nothing different with the Final Charge being the coolant (this is good). I am satisfied that the DCA task is off my list of things to do. At 3 years one needs to add a gallon of extender. Then your good for another 3 years.

I also put final charge in the generator. Even though the Gen does not have a wet sleeve technology, I did it just so I could standardize on one coolant.