Community Forums

spike45 · 06-12-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRVer

Man, I just bought a gallon of the CAT Long Life Anitfreeze for $12.00. Someone is trying to empty your pocket.

I very much agree that the price is very high. But not all engines can run CAT ELC or similar. See my other posts. It works well in most engines but will attack silicon rubber hose and gaskets. Not all diesel engines use silicon rubber. Cummins is moving away from it with each new engine introduction. The new gasket elastomer for new models of Cummins engines is HNBR. A very high end elastomer....pricey too. Immune to the effects of the organic acid found in CAT ELC and the others I listed in another post on this thread.

OneRVer · 06-12-2011, 04:00 PM

Spike, I have been a dedicated user of Amsoil since my Prudhoe Bay, Alaska days in the late 70's. Amsoil has now introduce a long life antifreeze for around $32.00 a gallon. Their claim is that it may be used in any engine and is completely safe for the environment.

For the first time I am questioning one of their products. If you do not mind I would like to have your personal opinion on this products. I will completely understand if you wish not to comment.

Also on the water separator, Donaldson. When I loosen the water drain valve on the bowl of the filter I get a lot of air bubbles into the filter. When I was using the NAPA filter I do not remember introducing any air into the filter at all. Is this common?

spike45 · 06-13-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRVer

Spike, I have been a dedicated user of Amsoil since my Prudhoe Bay, Alaska days in the late 70's. Amsoil has now introduce a long life antifreeze for around $32.00 a gallon. Their claim is that it may be used in any engine and is completely safe for the environment.

For the first time I am questioning one of their products. If you do not mind I would like to have your personal opinion on this products. I will completely understand if you wish not to comment.

Also on the water separator, Donaldson. When I loosen the water drain valve on the bowl of the filter I get a lot of air bubbles into the filter. When I was using the NAPA filter I do not remember introducing any air into the filter at all. Is this common?

Do you have any literature in PDF format or an MSDS? There are a lot of long life coolants. I doubt they have anything new. When they state it is completely safe for the environment.....maybe they mean it is just water! Water is definitely "long life" and safe for the environment. Sorry, could not help myself.

No engine coolant that provides protection against cavitation and corrosion should be considered completely safe. The engine coolants that have less environmental impact are propylene glycol base or glycerin based coolants. Antifreeze products are tested by means of an LD50 toxiicity test per FDA. LD is lethal dose. The 50 is when 50% of the lab rat population dies from ingesting "x" grams of a substance per kilogram of rat body weight. Standard EG coolants have a rating of 6000 mg per kilogram, PG is rated at 26,000 mg/kg. Much less toxic but not non-toxic. What is the LD50 of Jack Daniels? ....around 17,000 mg/kg only the rats died laughing.

Glycerin based coolants are available from Fleetguard perhaps others. Glycerin has the lowest toxicity but it has its operational problems and I would never recommend this coolant or any like it.

All glycols are biodegradeable. EG degrades the fastest. PG takes a little longer. Some waste treatment plants will allow the sewer disposal of coolant if you dilute it with a lot of water, like about 20% glycol to 80% (estimate). Contact your sewer utility for their recommendations.

As to long life let me just say that any engine coolant that meets ASTM D6210 specifications or better can have a very long life. Life of coolant is more realistically stated as what happens to the coolant that changes it chemically or physical changes. Long life is not derived by the inhibitor package as the companies who sell such coolants claim (including Fleetguard). You can tell I am not part of our company's marketing department. I do not buy anybody's story of long life through the inhibitor technology. Extended Service interval, YES, not long life. What kills coolant that requires it to be changed thus ending its life? Oil contamination from failed oil cooler. Diesel fuel in coolant. The pH drops below a certain level based on OAT or conventional chemistry. Each has its own threshold of change. Build up of high levels of organic degradation products that come from oxidation of the coolant under high temperatures.

So, tell me more about this coolant.

Gary

spike45 · 06-13-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRVer

Also on the water separator, Donaldson. When I loosen the water drain valve on the bowl of the filter I get a lot of air bubbles into the filter. When I was using the NAPA filter I do not remember introducing any air into the filter at all. Is this common?

Sorry, I got so wrapped up in my answer that I forgot about the last question.

Not sure what the problem is, but with draining, there should be some air allowed into the filter to get the water/fuel to drain out. All of our FWS products have a self-venting drain valve that allows air to go in. BTW, you should not have to drain much to see the collected water. Try to use a clear container to observe if the collected fluid is water. If your FWS has a WIF (water in fuel) sensor, the presence of water should turn on a light or some form of alarm at the instrument panel. It differs because we provide the sensor but the OEM provides the method on how to display an alarm.

OneRVer · 06-13-2011, 03:38 PM

It is easier to paste the web page then to try to explain what they are stating.

So here is the page. AMSOIL - Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant (ANT)

spike45 · 06-13-2011, 03:55 PM

Product Description
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant (ANT) is formulated to provide benefits far beyond those found in today’s conventional antifreeze and coolant products. This revolutionary formulation provides maximum antifreeze and cooling protection in the most extreme temperatures and operating conditions. And unlike conventional ethylene glycol-based products, which are highly toxic and even fatal, AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is formulated with propylene glycol. It is biodegradable and requires no special disposal costs or procedures in most areas. Above all, its low toxicity limits the threat to children, pets or wildlife.

"Revolutionary"? Fleetguard has had Compleat PG (now ES Compleat PG) fully formulated for over 16 years. Nothing new about their product. Just another product. You can read my earlier post about LD50 ratings on coolants. Per the FDA testing, even water could be toxic. You can die of too much water ingestion in too short a time. And I do not mean drowning! As for EG being fatal, that is true but drink enough PG and the same result as with lesser amount of EG. This company apparently does not know that Union Carbide won a lawsuit against the makers of Sierra Antifreeze (PG) when they claimed their product was non-toxic.

The 750,000 miles sounds good in 18w trucks. BUT the fact is that these trucks typically leak their entire cooling system of about 12 gallons in about 16 months, sometimes faster. So the coolant never really sees that kind of miles. You won't either, as you will not put enough miles on. There are several choices for PG coolants. I believe Shell now sells one that is ASTM D6210 rated for diesel engines. Shop around.

OneRVer · 06-13-2011, 05:13 PM

Thanks again Spike. Sounds like nothing but hype and that is what I was afraid of. I will stick with the CAT antifreeze for my CAT engine. $12.00 is a heck of allot better than what they are asking.

moisheh · 06-15-2011, 08:25 AM

As usual Amsoil( or is it Amway??) just sells hype. They repackage another product and double the price. It is not specifically approved by any manufacturer ( Cat, Detroit, etc.). Most Amsoil products are not approved by Trannie and Diesel mfrs.

Mr_D · 07-10-2011, 09:58 PM

Gary:
What do you think of DD Power Cool Plus in a Cummins ISC?

spike45 · 07-11-2011, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_D

Gary:
What do you think of DD Power Cool Plus in a Cummins ISC?

DD Power Cool Plus is Old World Final Charge. You can buy Final Charge cheaper than DD as a distributor. Final Charge has passed all the hurdles required by Cummins to be an approved coolant.

It will work fine. Just be certain that you only refill with that coolant or DDC Power Cool Plus if you do not have any FC.

There is no testing available to show that the coolant is actively protecting the engine. I can assure you that it will protect against liner pitting. Your ISC still has a coolant filter. Use the Fleetguard WF2122 or WF2123 changed every two years. Either of those filters are designed for 150,000 miles, 4000 hours or one year in an oh-highway truck. They will more than go the distance in your MH.

Mr_D · 07-11-2011, 04:11 PM

I just found the DDC Power Cool Plus for $15.04 a gallon. I can't find the Final Charge for less than $20.32 a gallon and it's precharged but still needs SCA's checked and added.

I have a few more places to check for Old World Final Charge.

Mr_D · 07-11-2011, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_D

I just found the DDC Power Cool Plus for $15.04 a gallon. I can't find the Final Charge for less than $20.32 a gallon and it's precharged but still needs SCA's checked and added.

I have a few more places to check for Old World Final Charge.

I also found the DDC Power Cool for just over $9 a gallon at the same place.

moisheh · 07-12-2011, 05:52 AM

Mr.D: Final Charge is nor "precharged". You NEVER add SCA's to this coolant. not required and woild likely ruin the coolant. Maybe Gary can give us an explanation.

spike45 · 07-12-2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moisheh

Mr.D: Final Charge is nor "precharged". You NEVER add SCA's to this coolant. not required and woild likely ruin the coolant. Maybe Gary can give us an explanation.

Moisheh is correct. Final Charge is not precharged with conventional SCA like other coolants that are not OAT. Final Charge is the original 2nd generation OAT coolant formulated without nitrite, molybdate and the other additives used in conventional HD coolant with SCA.

However, if you added SCA such as Pencool 2000, Detroit Power Cool additive, Fleetguard DCA2 or DCA4 you will not harm the coolant. Our original Fleetguard ES Optimax was Final Charge with a major dose of nitrite and molybdate added.