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05-18-2013, 06:21 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diplomat Don
Mr D.....You realize, CJGJR said he used 6 gallons of the CONCENTRATE, which would require 6 gallons of distilled water. I missed it at first too.
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Go back and read the original post, he says 12 QUARTS!
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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05-19-2013, 10:58 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJGJR
Which Shell ELC? The yellow or the strawberry red? It makes a difference. RED
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The red Shell OAT coolant contains ethyl hexanoic acid. Do not use it in radiators constructed of soldered copper. Ethyl Hex attacks lead solder resulting in eventual radiator leakage. Also, the same OAT acid attacks silicon rubber coolant hose breaking the lining down leading to hose failure. Cummins allows the use of this and similar coolants of other manufacture but they do not endorse its use. Use of these coolants in Cummins engines that have silicon rubber edge-molded gaskets has been found to degrade the silicon rubber resulting in coolant leakage into the oil. The results can be catastrophic. To use that coolant in some Cummins engines requires the use of a silicon fluid at the time of FIRST fill of the cooling system with those coolants.
__________________
Spike45
Gary Spires
Retired Cummins (Fleetguard) Field Engineer
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05-19-2013, 11:00 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneyj
After all said and done. I bought DCA4 and the test kits. I looked around under the motor and found a petcock to drain off some coolant. This stuff is beautiful, nice reddish orange and clear. I did a three way test from fleetguard and it gave me a reading of 1.2 units per gallon. I calculated for 2.0 upg and added 10 units of DCA4. I will check it again in a couple months or so to see where the levels are at titrate up to optimum levels. I also got six gallons of Fleetguard at Tractor Supply, Just in case I need to change it out. Oh the money I have spent.
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Cheaper than buying an inframe overhaul for pitted liners.
__________________
Spike45
Gary Spires
Retired Cummins (Fleetguard) Field Engineer
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05-19-2013, 11:02 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILDEBILL308
Just a note to those changing their coolent. ALLWAS use the consentrate. Find out how much your system takes and after the final flush fill with 50% consentrate then fill with distilled water. This takes into acount the water you coulden't drain. Using the 50/50 mix will give you less than 50/50 after you are done because of the water left in that you coulden't drain.
Bill
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Bill,
How do you know how much concentrate to use? How much water was left in the engine after flushing? Why do all of you swear that you must use distilled water to flush with?
__________________
Spike45
Gary Spires
Retired Cummins (Fleetguard) Field Engineer
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05-20-2013, 06:21 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike45
The red Shell OAT coolant contains ethyl hexanoic acid. Do not use it in radiators constructed of soldered copper.... Use of these coolants in Cummins engines that have silicon rubber edge-molded gaskets has been found to degrade the silicon rubber resulting in coolant leakage into the oil.
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So is there a way to tell if my radiator is so constructed and if my Cummins engine (ISC350) has the silicon rubber gaskets?
Greg
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2000 Monaco Dynasty
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05-20-2013, 08:02 AM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 175
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You're right, I should have said 12 Gal. 6 gal concentrate and 6 gals RO. My bad.
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05-20-2013, 08:04 AM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 175
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Also, Spartan did the original shell Red ELC and it's holding up OK. I just figured why change?
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05-20-2013, 12:06 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Pensacola
Posts: 2,728
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A new revision (#06) to the Cummins Coolant Service Bulletin has been issued. The updated version is here: http://www.granlydiesel.com/fileadmi...2__21mar13.pdf
Section 3 discusses the extended service intervals and Shell ELC. The label on your coolant should list it complies with Cummins CES14603
__________________
Hooligan, Pensacola, Fl -U.S. Coast Guard 1956-1985
2016 Thor Siesta Sprinter 24ST diesel -1972 Moto Guzzi
2008 Suzuki Grand Vitara TOAD
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05-20-2013, 01:46 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner Retired Fire Service RVer's
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Northern California
Posts: 394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooligan
A new revision (#06) to the Cummins Coolant Service Bulletin has been issued. The updated version is here: http://www.granlydiesel.com/fileadmi...2__21mar13.pdf
Section 3 discusses the extended service intervals and Shell ELC. The label on your coolant should list it complies with Cummins CES14603
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Yea, I got that update. Based on that I picked up a few bottles of DCA4 from Cummins West and 6 gallons of Fleetguard from Tractor Supply. It meets the updated Cummins Spec CES 14603.
I found the drain petcock on the engine block and drained some coolant into a clean jar. I tested with the 3 way kits and added the appropriate amount of DCA4 conservatively. Better to add less than optimum instead of more. Thanks for all the help.
__________________
Jeff/Diane, Retired Fire Capt. I.Y.A.O.Y.A.S.
2004 Winnebago Journey 39K on a Workhorse chassis w/ ISC 330, Allison 3000 2013 Honda Fit with Roadmaster Baseplate, BrakeMaster and All Terrain Falcon Tow Bar.
GS#819681685 FMCA#F437136 SKP#112720
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05-21-2013, 02:06 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooligan
A new revision (#06) to the Cummins Coolant Service Bulletin has been issued. The updated version is here: http://www.granlydiesel.com/fileadmi...2__21mar13.pdf
Section 3 discusses the extended service intervals and Shell ELC. The label on your coolant should list it complies with Cummins CES14603
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Did you read the section on these coolants where it states that they DO NOT MEET the elastomer compatibility test section of Cummins Engineering Standard CES 14603. These coolants must use a supplemental silicate additive per Cummins requirements in order to protect silicon rubber gaskets and seals used in some Cummins engines. Cummins does not state that they approve these coolant. Cummins only approves Fleetguard coolants. Shell, Chevron Texaco and others who use the same OAT inhibitor are lumped together on this matter of elastomer compatibility....thus silicate fluid is required. It does state that Cummins midrange engines, i.e. B5.9 ISB5.9, ISB6.7, ISC, ISL are said to not be affected by these coolants. Still, if you have a soldered copper radiator, you have cause for concern.
__________________
Spike45
Gary Spires
Retired Cummins (Fleetguard) Field Engineer
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05-21-2013, 02:16 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneyj
.......Better to add less than optimum instead of more. Thanks for all the help.
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Why do you figure that way? If you are using a Fleetguard coolant with DCA4 in concentrate or premix, you have a very adequate precharge. Does your MH engine have a coolant filter? If so, you can add the maintenance dose using a WF2071 or WF2072 coolant filter with DCA4. No filter head, add the maintenance dose as liquid DCA4.
If you dose up to 3 units per gallon, so what. That is the highest recommended level on the test strip reference cards. A little over is not a big deal. However, if you are going to run at the lower end of the reference card range thinking you are as well protected as at the upper end......think again. With higher levels of additive, you reduce the chances of getting below 1.2 units per gallon if you have to refill the system in an emergency with water only.
On most engines (not ISL) the threshold for pitting begins at 0.8 units per gallon. ISL is more sensitive thus I would not let it get below 1.0 units per gallon. Your test strip maintenance instructions tell you to add a precharge on top of any coolant that tests at less than 1.2 units per gallon.
Do not be penny wise and pound foolish.
__________________
Spike45
Gary Spires
Retired Cummins (Fleetguard) Field Engineer
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05-21-2013, 02:45 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Spike:
How do I determine if the Detroit Diesel Power Cool Plus is correct for my ISC? I can read all the specs but the Power Cool I have was bought a year or so ago and has been in my storage shed so the bottles won't say anything about the new spec. I just bought new silicone hoses and am going to replace the coolant along with the hoses.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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05-21-2013, 02:47 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJGJR
You're right, I should have said 12 Gal. 6 gal concentrate and 6 gals RO. My bad.
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I was just poking fun at ya!! I knew what you meant.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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05-21-2013, 08:26 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FORT WORTH, TEXAS
Posts: 2,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike45
Bill,
How do you know how much concentrate to use? How much water was left in the engine after flushing? Why do all of you swear that you must use distilled water to flush with?
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Find out what your total cooling system capacity is. Now fill 50% of that with the concentrate then fill the rest of the way with distilled water. You don’t need to know how much water is left in the system this process automatically compensates for it. I use distilled water to reduce any added mineral or other contaminates that could damage your cooling system. I have also changed the coolant in my 7500 quiet diesel generator to a low silica coolant. They had to change the radiater when I bought my rig because it was plugged with silica deposits.
Bill
__________________
2008 Newmar Mountain Aire
450 HP Cummins ISM 4000MH Allison Trans.
Towing a 2014 Honda CRV with a Blue Ox tow bar.
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