Cummins Engine getting dirt in it

[lrodsangel]

We have a 2006 Coachmen Sportscoach Diesel. All of our warranty work AND maintenance were done by a Cummins Certified shop. We did all maintenance on schedule and learned after 98,000 miles - that in all of our PM services - they never changed out our air filter - instead claimed they "blew it out". It clearly states ON the air filter casing to NOT do this. We learned all of this when the air filter disintegrated - blowing dirt and paper thru our turbo and into our engine. We ended up replacing our turbo, engine, air filter to the tune of over $20,000. We were still within our warranty - but Cummins Diesel refused to warranty anything stating it was negligence on our part for not changing the air filter. We entrusted the other Cummins certified mechanics to take care of our maintenance and they blew it. This shop refused to accept any responsibility for the destruction of our engine and has since gone out of business - Imagine that! So after replacing all parts - we think all is fine. Wrong! We continue to have problems with the new engine and starting blowing oil just a few months after the new engine. In 12 months time - we missed only 2 months NOT having a problem with the engine. We were either on the phone with Cummins or in the shop every month. At 43,000 miles and 2 weeks out of 1 year warranty on the new engine (took Cummins a month to decide the problem was the engine) we again are told that our engine had dirt in it. During all of this time - we had 3 new air filters installed and they replaced the turbo twice! We had the shop night foreman tell us that the mechanic had found 2 clogged tubes and a VACUUM hose that had been left unhooked when they installed the new engine last year - but when we mentioned this to the Shop manager - all of a sudden that story changed and it wasn't a vacuum hose. Once again - Cummins hung us with the bill on another new engine, air filter & turbo - $16,000 this time. We are now 2 months into the new engine and have had the first engine oil change in half the "required scheduled mileage". We insisted that all of our oil changes be analyzed from now on. It has been a month since we had the oil changed and we called this morning to find out if they ever got our lab results back - they did and didn't bother to call us and let us know that there were STILL high levels of silica in our oil. So in a new engine, turbo, air filter and completely sealed air system (with silicone) we are still getting dirt in our new engine. Cummins normal response to us has been - they don't warranty dirt. We are at our wits end and don't know what to do.

[lrodsangel]

and I also forgot to mention that Cummins kept our coach for 2 1/2 months and during that time - the mechanic slammed the rear of the coach into a wall and ripped the back cap off doing thousands of dollars of damage to the rear of our coach. We work out of our coach and are on the road an average of 250+ days. It is our hotel, office and home on the road - so being out of it for 2 1/2 months was a severe hardship - which Cummins just said - sorry.

[RJay]

No one should have to go thru or put up with the experiences you just described.


My advice is to write a letter to the appropriate vice president at Cummins HQ. In the letter describe your experience as you did here, don't add any opinions, sarcasm, or accusations and don't threaten legal action or use legal terms or what you perceive as their obligation, just the facts. In closing the letter state that you would like to speak with someone who has the authority to resolve the situation and that you expect to hear from him/her by...and give a date.


Written this way you are not making any threats or settlement demands or putting them on defense and your showing you're openness to a solution(whatever that may be to your liking). The date certain indicates you want action. The wheels of corporate progress turns slowly so I would make it no less than a seven days and no more than ten after receipt. Anything more than ten days shows indicision and weakness and anything less than seven is unreasonable.


In addition, you should consult with a lawyer. After describing the situation with him ask if he will take the case on a contingency fee, I don't think he will so ask for a estimated cost. If he wants the case on an hourly bases see another lawyer. When someone from Cummins finally calls at least you will know where you stand and have a realistic view of a settlement. If after speaking with the Cummins rep you not satisfied you can proceed legally if you find it feasible.


Good luck!

[The Danes Are Coming]

Irodsangel!!!

I am frustrated on your behalf. It sound to me like you have acted in good faith and that Cummins should recognize and acknowledge this.

I am a Good Sam member for what this is worth. When I read their magazine I do read about RVers having problems like you have just described. It also looks like Good Sam do confront some of the larger suppliers and use their leverage to bring suppliers to rethink their "convenient for them" decisions.

If Good Sam is just "showing off" or if they really do make an effort and a difference I do obviously do not know, but if you happen to be a member, why not contact them and ask for assistance. An organisation like FMCA may also be able to help.

I really hope that this works out for you in the end.

[J Walker]

What a horror story! There is some major incompetence on the part of the shops. An air filter should not disintegrate in four years, so it looks like the shop damaged it when they blew it out. Blowing a filter out is an old procedure that might save some money, but it allows a chance for the dirt being blown out to be ingested by the engine. If the air pressure is used incorrectly it could damage the paper filter as it seems to have happened in your case. The labor to remove a filter, blow it out, and replace is more than the cost of a new filter so it makes no sense if you are paying someone to do it. The rest of the repairs and replacements are incompetence. They are not doing what they say they are doing or they are doing it wrong.

[nplenzick]

Boy and I thought I had problems with my coach, you take the prize! Rjay has given you great advice and that's the direction I would go. What your going through is completely and totally ridiculous. I do the oil changes and most of the maintenance on my coach and I also do oil analysts on most oil changes. I always show below normal levels of silicon (dirt) in the oil with 7500 mile oil change intervals and changing the air filter when needed. I haven't had any of the problems you mentioned. What your experiencing by your own statements are extremely far from normal.

[94-Newmar]

It sure seems as if it's not really sealed somewhere. Have they performed a pressure test on the entire air intake system? There is a device that fits over each end of the intake system from the flexible air intake all the way down to the intake side of the turbo thru the intercooler and on to the engine intake itself. They then pressurize the entire intake system from stem to stern. They then add some special smoke and you'll see leaks quickly. I know they have this because they used this method to find a leaking flexible intake boot near an elbow that had a small tear/rip in it on my 8.3. Also found a 2ndary intake line running from the air compressor up to the engine intake that was disconnected.

[lrodsangel]

and this nightmare continues.... My husband took the coach back to Cummins this morning for them to draw another oil sample to test again. After they got the sample - he cranked the engine and started to pull out of the parking lot when one of the mechanics ran out waving his arms for him to stop. He yelled at him to shut the engine down NOW! When he got up to my husband - he told him that he had broke a belt on the engine - it was laying in the parking lot behind him. Thankfully we had a spare on board - because this Cummins diesel shop didn't have one! So 2 mechanics struggle to install the belt (hmmmmm?) and as my husband stands there watching them - he notices a crack on the 6 week old air filter and points it out to the mechanic. There is a HUGE crack in the filter and it is soaked with water. Of course - Cummins isn't going to accept ANY responsibility for this - so charge us for another new air filter and labor - $300. This is the 4th air filter we have installed in 13 months - 2 engines and 4 turbos also.

[lrodsangel]

oh and did I mention - that after replacing all of these parts - over and over again in this 13 month time frame - Cummins has yet to accept any responsibility for any of it. We have poured over $40,000 into repairs in 13 months on top of regular maintenance.

[94-Newmar]

Something is terribly amiss with this whole issue. "Dusting" an engine will result in the loss of a turbo after a LONG period of time. Ingesting debris from an exploded air filter would hardly damage the bottom side of an engine bad enough to require replacement, especially two times in a row. Water soaked air filter? Something is factually wrong with this whole story.

[a k]

Should of bought a warranty maybe? Good Sams are about $1400 for basic and $1800 for full coverage.

[lrodsangel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94-Newmar Something is terribly amiss with this whole issue. "Dusting" an engine will result in the loss of a turbo after a LONG period of time. Ingesting debris from an exploded air filter would hardly damage the bottom side of an engine bad enough to require replacement, especially two times in a row. Water soaked air filter? Something is factually wrong with this whole story.

Tell that to Cummins because they have installed 4 turbos in 13 months. We are Good Sam Club members and I have kept detailed records of everything and have all receipts of our maintenance and repairs from day one - so I am going to send everything to Good Sam and see if they can help.

[lrodsangel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by a k Should of bought a warranty maybe? Good Sams are about $1400 for basic and $1800 for full coverage.

We were still under warranty on the first engine that came with the coach and Cummins warranty informed us that they do not warranty dirt - so they would not replace the engine under warranty. Got the same song and dance when it came to this new engine that after we have had problems from the day they installed it. Took them 4 weeks (while we were still under warranty) to finally decide that it was once again the engine - and they came back and said the pistons/rings were broken after 43,000 miles on this new engine - again dirt - so they refused to warranty. In that 4 weeks - they put in a new turbo - and then 2 weeks later - decided it was a bad turbo and replaced that one. None of which helped - so we paid for a new turbo ($4000) that we didn't need. Cummins didn't care.

[indiana journey]

What is the name of your Cummins Shop and where are they located? I want to make sure that I never go there for any kind of service or repair.
I have had lots of inter-action with Cummins and most all of it has been good.
Good Luck,
Indiana Journey