Cummins Fined, & Recalling Engines

[AFChap]

Read the following iin an online RV newsletter:
"Cummins, Inc, will pay a $2.1 million fine and recall 405 engines under a settlement agreement regarding the Clean Air Act. From 1998 to 2006, the company shipped more than 570,000 heavy duty diesel engines without pollution equipment included."

I don't know what specific engines are involved, or any other details... Only info I was able to find indicates only 405 engines may be involved ...somehow slipped through w/o proper equipment installed?

[BigSkyBob]

I can only hope I have one .

[GaryKD]

I am a victim of this "recall". No you don't want to have one of these engines. Go to http://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/warn...5-a-56022.html and read the sad story. The engines are being recalled only to replace the neat pass through muffler with a gigantic "after treatment" device. It took two guys (experienced) 3 hours a cutting torch and welder to get the job done. Every time I fill up, with fuel, I think about the 6/10 MPG I lost with this campaign.

[powerboatr]

Originally Posted by GaryKD

I am a victim of this "recall". No you don't want to have one of these engines. Go to http://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/warn...5-a-56022.html and read the sad story. The engines are being recalled only to replace the neat pass through muffler with a gigantic "after treatment" device. It took two guys (experienced) 3 hours a cutting torch and welder to get the job done. Every time I fill up, with fuel, I think about the 6/10 MPG I lost with this campaign.

400 motors walked out the door unequipped......sounds like a load of malarky

[Superslif]

Here is a video from Cummins explaining the exhaust items in question. Cummins diesel exhaust video You might as well put a cork at the end of your tailpipe.

[Pigman1]

If you can get a complete exact copy of the recall directly from the NHTSA site, it might be worth it to see when it expires. A recall requires a company to repair a defect, but I've never seen one that applied directly to an end consumer. I had an exhaust recall on a CAT C-7 that I felt was a joke, and would potentially cause more problems than if I did not complete it. I just didn't bring it in, and eventually the recall expired. The only hammer they might have is to refuse to do further updates until this one is done. Checking the exact wording of the recall might give you some clue on what you can and can't do.

I haven't completely researched it, but that might be my initial impression of a way to go if uou didn't want to go through this mess.

John

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Superslif

Here is a video from Cummins explaining the exhaust items in question. Cummins diesel exhaust video You might as well put a cork at the end of your tailpipe.

Superslif, I believe this link is to the new 2010 DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) treatment required by the new 2010 engines. This has nothing to do with the recall campaign that I know of. DEF has drawn a lot of interest, but it's not retroactive to earlier engines. My 2008 for example has a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter), and entirely different method of exhaust gas management.

[RustyJC]

From an automotive press article:

The EPA and the Justice Department complaint alleges that Cummins shipped 570k heavy-duty diesel engines to OEM customers between 1998 and 2006 without the emissions-control systems that make them Clean Air Act-compliant. It’s not even clear clear that the crud-controlling gear is missing. The paperwork is. Cummins spokesfolks admit that 405 (or about .7 percent) of those engines never received documentation that shows they were fitted with the appropriate emissions-control systems.

Rusty

[Gary RVRoamer]

Cummins is in an awkward position on EPA compliance. They build the engine and test to EPA specs when the engine is installed in the manner they prescribe, but they aren't actually installing the engine in the chassis that goes out on the road. That means they are not providing or installing the exhaust system and that is what is at issue here. In this case, either the installer left off the required catalytic converter or failed to provide documentation to establish that it was installed, so the EPA insists that Cummins recall those engines and verify or repair as needed. Apparently at least some of the 405 did not get the required devices, so Cummins is paying a hefty fine. It would be more fair to fine the installer, but I think EPA does not want to get into that - they are requiring the engine manufacturer to do the policing for them. You can bet there will now be another layer of bureaucracy at the chassis manufacturer and at Cummins to make sure this doesn't happen again. And you and I will pay for it.

[FleetMan]

EPA went after Detroit Diesel and International several years ago using the same logic. The engine people build, test and certify according to the rules EPA prescribes, which is for a laboratory situation. Then EPA injects additional criteria after the fact and finds them out of compliance in real world operations. Cat pulled out of the "On Road" diesel market because of EPA requirements. Is Cummins the next target for the anti-diesel regulators at the EPA. Yes, this may be political but I spent too many years in the trucking industry watching it be regulated to death not to have developed a strong, first amendment protected opinion!

[EngineerMike]

The DPF engines mentioned above (basically engines built 2007 and later) have to be assembled and bench tested w/the DPF installed, and then run thru the "regeneration" process of the Filter to show that the installed apparatus meets specs when it leaves Cummins' shop. I'm guessing Cummins then removes the DPF from whatever plumbing they use for the test, and ships the two separately to the vehicle assembler. Vehicle assemblers chose the plumbing between the turbo outfall and the DPF, location for the DPF and its bracketing,...

My understanding of the 0925 recall is that Cummins "met" the EPA criteria for some ISL engines by tweaking their test methods instead of tweaking their engine input parameters &/or aftertreatment. This resulted in some cases of an engine that achieved 10+mpg in a motorhome application (wouldn't that be sweet?), and that the recall was mandatory whenever the rig came in for service @ Cummins (i.e. the owner had no choice if Cummins was doing service, and Cummins didn't either). This meant some rigs got revised ECU programming (putting them down in the 8+mpg) and maybe the cataclysmic converter as well.

[Pigman1]

Originally Posted by EngineerMike

The DPF engines mentioned above (basically engines built 2007 and later) have to be assembled and bench tested w/the DPF installed, and then run thru the "regeneration" process of the Filter to show that the installed apparatus meets specs when it leaves Cummins' shop. I'm guessing Cummins then removes the DPF from whatever plumbing they use for the test, and ships the two separately to the vehicle assembler. Vehicle assemblers chose the plumbing between the turbo outfall and the DPF, location for the DPF and its bracketing,...

My understanding of the 0925 recall is that Cummins "met" the EPA criteria for some ISL engines by tweaking their test methods instead of tweaking their engine input parameters &/or aftertreatment. This resulted in some cases of an engine that achieved 10+mpg in a motorhome application (wouldn't that be sweet?), and that the recall was mandatory whenever the rig came in for service @ Cummins (i.e. the owner had no choice if Cummins was doing service, and Cummins didn't either). This meant some rigs got revised ECU programming (putting them down in the 8+mpg) and maybe the cataclysmic converter as well.

I wonder how the REQUIRED update would apply to a non-Cummins (independent) shop? You don't have to go to a Cummins dealer or repair facility to get a Cummins update or service bulletin taken care of.

Anybody know?

John

[GaryKD]

Hi John,
The reason the shops are jumping on this is that Cummins is paying them handsomely to do it on every engine they can find. How this affects an independent shop I do not know. Gut feel says they want the $s as much as the certified service center. The tasks to do this job are not rocket science.

I got a call from every Cummins Service Center I ever had any engine work done. The all wanted me to come right over and get the recall done. They would take me right in, no waiting.

[Pigman1]

Gary,

How did it feel to be the most popular girl at the dance? LOL. I'd imagine if one were adamant about getting what you wanted done and what you didn't want done, you could probably push it through, but you would rapidly lose a lot of that popularity.

As a lot of forum contributors have said, some of the things these companies want to do are not for your betterment, but for theirs. Thanks to places like these forums, we can get more information about stuff like this before we get it done rather than after the fact. Thanks for keeping the info flowing.

John